(Spoilers) Ghimlyt difficulty was a step down from the Burn...and that needs to stop

[ApolloGenX]

But nothing about this game says "hardcore"... why are people complaining about it this many years into the game? You might as well be complaining about the formula. It's not a hardcore game... at all..so yes. There are people playing that are not expert level. If you are expert level you probably play a game that actually requires expert level play or caters to that.

[splinter1545]

But nothing about this game says "hardcore"... why are people complaining about it this many years into the game? You might as well be complaining about the formula. It's not a hardcore game... at all..so yes. There are people playing that are not expert level. If you are expert level you probably play a game that actually requires expert level play or caters to that.

Just because a game isn't catering to the hardcore, doesn't mean they shouldn't make hardcore content. Regardless, the discussion is to make dungeon content more difficult than it is now, not necessarily turn it into 4-man extreme content for the hardcore players.

[Deceptus]

Just because a game isn't catering to the hardcore, doesn't mean they shouldn't make hardcore content.

They do. It just doesn't happen to be dungeons. Savages and Ultimates are the hardcore content.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

They do. It just doesn't happen to be dungeons. Savages and Ultimates are the hardcore content.

Asking the game to have a proper learning curve and difficulty progression that increases with level and new expansions, where players are teached progressively to improve at their classes now is "Hardcore".

[Deceptus]

Asking the game to have a proper learning curve and difficulty progression that increases with level and new expansions, where players are teached progressively to improve at their classes now is "Hardcore".

Again, the difficulty progression is Dungeons : 24 mans / Alphascape/Sigma/Omega : EX's : Savage : Ultimate. Don't attempt to pretend it doesn't exist.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Again, the difficulty progression is Dungeons : 24 mans / Alphascape/Sigma/Omega : EX's : Savage : Ultimate. Don't attempt to pretend it doesn't exist.

And that is bad.
Because clearly, many players are not learning anything by doing braindead, push over, 3 corridors 3 circular area, without a single mechanical requirement dungeons, and when they DO come across something slightly difficult, they crash bad. Let alone when they enter the 24 man.

Besides, the whole structure is just terrible, 24 raids should be the strongest ones, not the catch up ones. The only proper part here is Savage... Ultimate is just a weird experiment.

So yeah, the structure is there. And is bad.
I'll say it again, the game needs a proper learning and difficulty curve. Not 50 level tutorial full of irrelevant stuff that leave players unprepared for higher level content. And higher level content, starts at 50. Again, a level 70 dungeon shouldn't be as easy as a level 30 one.

Also arrange the denomination of duties, we have duties that have like 3 versions, while others on the same category have 2, is a whole mess. Is like they are making this stuff on the go instead of having a proper planification.

[Kazrah]

So yeah, the structure is there. And is bad.

It's only bad to players who fail to realize that at the end of the day, SE is trying to keep people playing. Make things too difficult, and they'd lose more subscriptions than they would making things too easy. So long as the vast majority of game income comes from casual players who just want simple fun rather than the tryhards wanting players to be more tryhard like them, that's the group that devs would best cater to.

As for Ghimlyt, I'd say it's right where it needs to be as far as difficulty goes. No excessively punishing boss mechanics, no mobs whose hit boxes cause players to have to move out of the healer's range, the mobs are scaled to be enough of a general challenge to players going in at minimum item level and the boss fights themselves are in-line with scaling as well. The only real complaint I have is that the item level requirement for it is oddly well above the item level of gear that drops from the other dungeons in the expert roulette group.

Also, if you want content to be more difficult, you can do that by yourself. Run harder content at minimum ilvl or on a job you barely know anything about. It's far easier for the player to make regular content more challenging than devs to make content that would please everyone all the time.

[Jijifli]

Again, the difficulty progression is Dungeons : 24 mans / Alphascape/Sigma/Omega : EX's : Savage : Ultimate. Don't attempt to pretend it doesn't exist.

And it sounds like it's doing a really bad job because by already the second step in your list, I already had to explain to people bare bone basics that make me question how they even made it to 70. An example bring O12 normal, where our warrior tank kept getting 1 shotted. Turned out, he had no idea what any of his defensive cooldowns were. You'd expect bare bone basics like reading your skills would be done by dungeons, but nope. I've seen it all the way up to savage, and it's disgusting.

[linay]

And it sounds like it's doing a really bad job because by already the second step in your list, I already had to explain to people bare bone basics that make me question how they even made it to 70. An example bring O12 normal, where our warrior tank kept getting 1 shotted. Turned out, he had no idea what any of his defensive cooldowns were. You'd expect bare bone basics like reading your skills would be done by dungeons, but nope. I've seen it all the way up to savage, and it's disgusting.

I'm guessing the problem there is the ability to use multiple jobs on one character combined with various ways to level. Unlock raid as DPS, level tank via deep dungeon or beast tribe quest, get some appropriate gears, and now you can enter raid as a tank without knowing your tank abilities.

[splinter1545]

They do. It just doesn't happen to be dungeons. Savages and Ultimates are the hardcore content.

I do know Savage and Ultimate are meant for the hardcore. What my statement meant was that they could still make content that isn't a cakewalk, yet still easy enough for casual players to participate in and complete. I never said that dungeons should start catering hardcore, nor should they make dungeons exclusively for hardcore players.