Crafting requirements.

[Adren]

I'm not sure I understand what issue you are having? If you are trying to gain levels through crafting stuff, either stay on easier crafts or use levequests for a little while to get the experience needed to level 61? If you're complaining that 60 mastercraft items are to hard to craft, then again, level up and get to higher level with better gear where it won't matter that they need high stats for level 60 because you can be at level 70 with level 70 gear. Even the starter ilvl 290 crafting set is more than enough to craft lvl 60 mastercraft gear.

EDIT: Misread, thought you were trying to go from HW to SB but I see now you are going from ARR to HW but same princaples apply. Either craft easier stuff or do levequests to get to level 52 so you can wear HW crating gear which has the stats needed for HW stuff. You can even have a friend craft levequest items for you to help you make the jump with HQ turn ins. If you have no one that will craft HW items for you to turn in, then use the lvl 45 levequests. It will take a few more levequests but they will get you leveled up all the same.

You misunderstand. I'm level 50 in all craft classes with some at 70. I have no issue HQing anything. My issue is that I put my reputation on the line by recommending a game and those new players who want to level as fast as possible through old content have problems HQing a leve item in all HQ crafted, level appropriate gear because the level 51 crafted white gear doesn't even meet the recommended stats to HQ an item. This is because of the Ilevel gap between maxed ARR gear when SB came out and the starting SB white gear. Level 50 greens are Ilevel 70 while SB white level 51 gear is 65. It makes no logical sense and new players get frustrated with it. I ground out the level they shouldn't have to now that SB isn't the "Newest" content. SE should go back and streamline that stuff.

[Thamorian]

You misunderstand. I'm level 50 in all craft classes with some at 70. I have no issue HQing anything. My issue is that I put my reputation on the line by recommending a game and those new players who want to level as fast as possible through old content have problems HQing a leve item in all HQ crafted, level appropriate gear because the level 51 crafted white gear doesn't even meet the recommended stats to HQ an item. This is because of the Ilevel gap between maxed ARR gear when SB came out and the starting SB white gear. Level 50 greens are Ilevel 70 while SB white level 51 gear is 65. It makes no logical sense and new players get frustrated with it. I ground out the level they shouldn't have to now that SB isn't the "Newest" content. SE should go back and streamline that stuff.

Oooooohhhhh Noooooo!!!!! Your fragile reputation will be shattered because some people have to use a few extra leves to get over the expansion bump! What ever will you dooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Yeah no one cares except you that there is an expansion bump which SE has already had a solution in game for from the start.

[Adren]

Oooooohhhhh Noooooo!!!!! Your fragile reputation will be shattered because some people have to use a few extra leves to get over the expansion bump! What ever will you dooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Yeah no one cares except you that there is an expansion bump which SE has already had a solution in game for from the start.

OHHHH NOOOOO someone got their feels hurt cause someone insulted SE and has to rush to the defense of their favorite company!!!. Now you have to post about it!!!! Poor poor feels. Lol. Must be SOOOO hard living with such tender feels. Maybe if SE had used some logic then their half baked solution wouldn't have been necessary?

[Thamorian]

OHHHH NOOOOO someone got their feels hurt cause someone insulted SE and has to rush to the defense of their favorite company!!!. Now you have to post about it!!!! Poor poor feels. Lol. Must be SOOOO hard living with such tender feels. Maybe if SE had used some logic then their half baked solution wouldn't have been necessary?

Says the guy who is worried about his reputation over something so silly LOL!

Again, this is a not an issue nor is it half baked. Most people use leves to level crafting and they have no issues with the expansion bumps.

Edit: Also to add, if someone doesn't want to use all the tools SE has provided them, thats not SE's fault. That's kinda like someone leveling a new combat class by only killing monsters while avoiding FATES, dungeons, daily roulettes PotD/HoH, battle leves, etc. then complaining leveling is slow and regular monsters don't give enough experience.

[Adren]

Says the guy who is worried about his reputation over something so silly LOL!

Again, this is a not an issue nor is it half baked. Most people use leves to level crafting and they have no issues with the expansion bumps.

Edit: Also to add, if someone doesn't want to use all the tools SE has provided them, thats not SE's fault. That's kinda like someone leveling a new combat class by only killing monsters while avoiding FATES, dungeons, daily roulettes PotD/HoH, battle leves, etc. then complaining leveling is slow and regular monsters don't give enough experience.

Umm yea... the problem is your "Most People", like you, have every job at 50 with all level 90 gear when they hit HW, cause they've been playing since launch. So no they don't have a problem with it. Of course you don't even consider the new people who have no idea about the beast tribe quests, etc. Who want to experience end game content without having to grind through old, outdated content for gear that is out level in 4 levels.

You're not looking at how mind boggling stupid it is to make new level 51 gear lower Ilevel then level 50 gear. Let me spell it out for you. Craftsmanship recommended to craft a level 50 patricians item is 178. To craft a level 51 item its 468. To get the green Ilevel 70 level 50 artisan gear you need you either need to be 2nd Lieutenant in your GC which requires getting your squadron to a state where they can do the flagged mission. By which time you're near level 60 in your combat class OR you get them from Mor Dhona with HQ turn ins that require at least two or three crafting jobs high enough to get cross class skills and items needed to HQ a three star craft. This would be fine if HW was still end game... It's not. You Idea that "Most people" don't have a problem with the bump is only including people that have those jobs already leveled. Not new players who don't want to have to grind through leveling fishing to 50 just to be able to HQ a piece of armor they need. Your "I ground through it so they must be lazy if they don't want to" stems from the fact that you're looking at it through a level 70's eyes. Try this; start a new character. Give yourself absolutely no advantage from your other characters and see how "easy" the bump is. Try HQing a piece of mythrite armor with only armorer at level 50. Given the fact that you won't have money to spend on the 10k HQd mats from the marketboard because HW mats are more freaking expensive then SB mats for some reason and will have issues gathering the HQ mats yourself, with no FC or friends to help you and no cross job skills like comfort zone, steady hands 2 or innovation to help you... Yea then come back and tell me how easy the "bump" was.

So the only option new players have is to stop leveling their combat class for 2 months to grind out the crafting and the gathering jobs and get their squadron up to snuff. OR SE could have planned ahead and streamlined the gap between ARR and HW when they introduced SB........

[Thamorian]

Umm yea... the problem is your "Most People", like you, have every job at 50 with all level 90 gear when they hit HW, cause they've been playing since launch. So no they don't have a problem with it. Of course you don't even consider the new people who have no idea about the beast tribe quests, etc. Who want to experience end game content without having to grind through old, outdated content for gear that is out level in 4 levels.

You're not looking at how mind boggling stupid it is to make new level 51 gear lower Ilevel then level 50 gear. Let me spell it out for you. To get the green Ilevel 70 level 50 artisan gear you need to be 2nd Lieutenant in your GC which requires getting your squadron to a state where they can do the flagged mission. By which time you're near level 60 in your combat class. OR you get them from Mor Dhona with HQ turn ins that require at least two or three crafting jobs high enough to get cross class skills and items needed to HQ a three star craft. This would be fine if HW was still end game... It's not. You Idea that "Most people" don't have a problem with the bump is only including people that have those jobs already leveled. Not new players who don't want to have to grind through leveling fishing to 50 just to be able to HQ a piece of armor they need. Your "I ground through it so they must be lazy if they don't want to" stems from the fact that you're looking at it through a level 70's eyes. Try this; start a new character. Give yourself absolutely no advantage from your other characters and see how "easy" the bump is. Try HQing a piece of mythrite armor with only armorer at level 50. Given the fact that you won't have money to spend on the 10k HQd mats from the marketboard because HW mats are more freaking expensive then SB mats for some reason and will have issues gathering the HQ mats yourself, with no FC or friends to help you and no cross job skills like comfort zone, steady hands 2 or innovation to help you... Yea then come back and tell me how easy the "bump" was.

So the only option new players have is to stop leveling their combat class for 2 months to grind out the crafting and the gathering jobs and get their squadron up to snuff. OR SE could have planned ahead and streamlined it........

Funny you should mention about starting a new character from nothing and getting to 70 because that is EXACTLY what I did with this character in my forum profile with the exception of using jump potion to skip ARR and HW MSQ and get a lvl 60 combat job which is offered for new players who just started so they can jump right into Stormblood. This character I started to work on from nothing January of last year. I didn't obsess about crafting ilvl 115 gear with patrician gear. Instead I kept using my patrician gear and got to leveled up a bit more with lower level leves, daily beast tribe quests, and daily GC turn ins so I could get to where I could use HW crafting gear. You want to know how I got my materials? I gathered what I needed to and bought the dirt cheap stuff on the MB. Making some materials and gear to sell so I could buy a few more materials. I was debating to mention that before and I guess I should of.

Your problem is you think you need to buy HQ mats and you need to make HQ stuff. You don't. It's convenient but levequests accept NQ turn ins too. And if someone really really REALLY wants to be able to make HW ilvl 115 gear after only getting level 50, they could gather what they can and buy what they need to and have another player craft the artisan gear. Artisan gear isn't all that expensive these days and it was the best gear people could have before Heavensward dropped so that is the gear people would of used to craft the first ilvl 115 sets.

And some point responses:
>It's well accepted that crafting is mostly an all or nothing. That you need to level all crafting classes to become a successful crafter for HQing.
>Yes, most people do use leves to level crafting. If you think otherwise, you are delusional. People like taking the easy way out and the easy way is leves.
>Again, level up with lower level leves if needed and then get gear from a shop or from another player. You are insisting that a fresh lvl 50 crafter without the gear should be able to craft gear way above his ilvl.
>Final Fantasy 14 has a full fleshed out crafting system unlike some other MMO's you may have played. Yes, it requires time to level up and isn't some side activity that you might feel like doing. You commit to it like you do any battle class/job. Should you stop working on your DPS job to work on your crafting job is as valid question as should you stop working on DPS to work on Tank job for a while.

Also leveling fishing to 50 for armorcraft is not required, that was as stupid statement. But really here it sound like your complaining players have to level gathering to be able to level crafting. If you don't have a lot of gil then of course you are going to need to level up gathering to get the materials needed to craft. What? You just want all the materials just handed to you?

I'd rather gathering and crafting not become a worthless side thing like it is in WoW.

[Adren]

And some point responses:
>It's well accepted that crafting is mostly an all or nothing. That you need to level all crafting classes to become a successful crafter for HQing.
>Yes, most people do use leves to level crafting. If you think otherwise, you are delusional. People like taking the easy way out and the easy way is leves.
>Again, level up with lower level leves if needed and then get gear from a shop or from another player. You are insisting that a fresh lvl 50 crafter without the gear should be able to craft gear way above his ilvl.
>Final Fantasy 14 has a full fleshed out crafting system unlike some other MMO's you may have played. Yes, it requires time to level up and isn't some side activity that you might feel like doing. You commit to it like you do any battle class/job. Should you stop working on your DPS job to work on your crafting job is as valid question as should you stop working on DPS to work on Tank job for a while.
I'd rather gathering and crafting not become a worthless side thing like it is in WoW.

You're laboring under the assumption that I'm the one having problems with crafting things. I'm not. SO let me clarify for you. I have level 70s across two accounts one with level 70s on mateus and 60s on excalibur and the other with 70s on jenova and mateus. I've been with this game since beta. My account still has the beta tag on the mog station that reads; FFXIV: A Realm Reborn - Beta Test Windows® is registered to this service account. My problem is the difficulty gap for the new players between expansions that are now considered "Leveling" is causing new players to quit the game. There is a flow with arr crafting that is rather enjoyable. Then once you hit that peak at 50 the difficulty spike goes through the roof. Why? Because SE didn't plan on there being a HW because of the debacle with FF14. As the game picked up steam they threw in extra content for ARR (the 6 billion quests for the seventh astral era line for example) and the item level went from 70 to 90 in crafting. No problem there. You have to keep people interested after all.

The issue that new players are having is because as they designed HW they made the completely illogical decision to make the starter level 51 crafting gear for HW Ilevel 65. BELOW ARR level 50 greens. So new players are given a choice. Stop leveling their combat class and go through the trudge of leveling every crafting class just to be able to get the ARR gear needed to HQ a HW item or ignore crafting until 70 because HW level 51 items suck for crafting. Most people do the later. I remember being told "welcome to the REAL end game" once I hit 70 in crafting.

You said "I'd rather gathering and crafting not become a worthless side thing like it is in WoW." Well in a way it is worthless to new players. They can't HQ craft their own gear so they just get them from the vendor for their combat classes once they hit HW and forget HQing a leve item.

As for my reputation I write game reviews so my reputation means something to me. When I look at my feedback page and see 2 messages like "Dude you said (insert game name here) was good but it sucks because (insert reason here)" I usually ignore them. But when it comes to FF14 more then just several people left me a quite a few messages that, when I took the time to think about it, have merit. My IRL friends have tried the game before due to my recommendation, I even paid for their subs and the game, just to help the game grow, and they had bad experiences. Not because of the same reason but it seems this game is getting less and less recommendable.

[Avenger]

Try this; start a new character. Give yourself absolutely no advantage from your other characters and see how "easy" the bump is. Try HQing a piece of mythrite armor with only armorer at level 50. Given the fact that you won't have money to spend on the 10k HQd mats from the marketboard because HW mats are more freaking expensive then SB mats for some reason and will have issues gathering the HQ mats yourself, with no FC or friends to help you and no cross job skills like comfort zone, steady hands 2 or innovation to help you... Yea then come back and tell me how easy the "bump" was.

The crafting jobs all interlock in a clever way, so it's advantageous to level all of them to 15 for the cross-job skills, then one to 50 for the armoury bonus (ixal are your friends), then the rest to 50 for the lv50 cross-job skills, then one to 70 for armoury bonus (moogles/namazu are your friends) then the rest to 70. There are alternate paths, but that's the one that I took and it worked reasonably well.

In the case you describe, I think your best bet is to go and buy the cheap NQ gear from NPCs and then to synth the HQ versions, but I think you'll need the lv50 skills!! It may be possible to be a viable lv70 uni-crafter using specialist skills, but the tried-and-true method is to get all the cross-class skills, and omnicrafting makes you self-sufficient.

Gil doesn't seem too hard to come by as a crafter - I managed to break about even while leveling by selling low-level HQ gear and then using the profits to buy HQ mats and materia as needed for crafting gear.

Leveling a gathering job is not only fun but also incredibly useful for a crafter - you can get mats for time rather than gil, and it also unlocks gathering retainers. Even a lv1 gatherer can help if you run out of shards and they are expensive for some reason!!

[ErryK]

OHHHH NOOOOO someone got their feels hurt cause someone insulted SE and has to rush to the defense of their favorite company!!!. Now you have to post about it!!!! Poor poor feels. Lol. Must be SOOOO hard living with such tender feels. Maybe if SE had used some logic then their half baked solution wouldn't have been necessary?

Get over yourself, my dude. It's just a recommendation. You don't need to make everything HQ, you've never been able to HQ stuff early on anyways without % chance, ie. Level 1 WVR with Level 1 gear HQing a Level 1 recipe is impossible unless RNG blesses you. On-level or not, doesn't matter, you're not doing it unless you got the skills/stats for it, whether that's higher or lower than the recommendation.

[Adren]

You don't need to make everything HQ, you've never been able to HQ stuff early on anyways without % chance, ie. Level 1 WVR with Level 1 gear HQing a Level 1 recipe is impossible unless RNG blesses you. On-level or not, doesn't matter, you're not doing it unless you got the skills/stats for it, whether that's higher or lower than the recommendation.

That's true but other then leves how are you gonna level crafting? Grind it out until you unlock Mog. Ixali dies off at 50 and you can't unlock mog until 56 since the last quest in the chain requires level 56. You can't do custom turn in's until 55. You're only given 6 leves a day. Not HQing them means you get 1 level per day maybe 1 and a half. 4 to 6 levels a day in combat classes. So your crafting lags so far behind your combat that it's completely pointless to even bother with it until 70. So yea it needs streamlining. Argue all you want isn't going to change the fact that crafting is pointless until you've nothing left to do in the game. Could be better with streamlining. But crafters are happy with the way things are. Less people crafting means more in game money for them. I don't fault them for that. I fault SE for making crafting pointless with illogical decisions.