Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[Tinibou]

You know, Blue Mage is just the typical way of how the FFXIV team is doing things... A lot of people asked for it and instead of saying "No" or finding a way to add it in a subtle way, they just did something that looks terrible.
They should start doing things they want and not things people want.

[Blueyes]

Ahh thanks for the clarification, I didn't think about Garond tools, i was using a reddit spreadsheet and gamerescape. Also are you sure peculiar light functions like an OGCD and not like bards emperial arrow, a GCD with a CD, but I must say I didn't even think about it eating bristle. Even with the clipping I still thing aqua into eruption at the end of that opener would be ideal, less clipping and more potency than knife

Oh thank you for bringing up Empyreal Arrow. It's a good comparison. I can verify that Empyreal Arrow is OGCD. It's safe to assume that Off-guard and Peculiar Light will work the same way, especially given that Empyreal Arrow has the same text about it not sharing a recast timer with any other action. It's nice to see SE bringing back that concept for Blue Mage as it creates a way to have spells with recast timers as that ordinarily isn't the case.

As for the the use of Aqua Breath instead of Sharpened Knife at the end, it's possible, but risky. Eruption is already barely making it within that 10 second window. It's worth noting that Eruption is one of those skills that must be placed at a designated location. Whether using a macro or placing it manually, there may be a slight delay before it goes off. Following the 2 second cast time of Aqua Breath, there would be an approximate half second window of time which may be cutting it too close for comfort. With Sharpened Knife's 1 second cast time, there's more room to work with.

After testing an Earthly Star macro following a 2 second Benefic, I can manage to apply it near instantly, but not without clipping into the next GCD. The GCD clipping would partially negate some of the gain from casting Aqua Breath (or another 130 action) over Sharpened Knife. Paired with the increased risk of missing Eruption within the Peculiar Light window, it's hard to say that the risk is worth the reward.

[Ceallach]

Such a terrible argument. You know very well no one here can make a game and thus can't counter that argument. What we can do however, is critique a product we're paying for. As long as said critique is respectful and relevant.

Most of it is only one of those, if not neither. That's kind of why I'm fed up.

I think this post deserves a special spot in the annals of the forum history. It's such a powerfully fallacious thing, really something to be admired. If you're tired of the complaining, make new forums where complaining isn't allowed; show SE how it's done.

I am literally tired of living to begin with. I don't think you picked up on that.

This is exactly the sort of reason as to why I barely look at the forums. Everyone is selfish, no one likes the devs, and everyone is at one another's throats. There's no such thing as civil discourse here. There's nothing worthy of respect here. The official forums are nothing more or less than a cesspool of toxicity aimed at the people who work on this game by people who don't know better and/or have nothing better to do.

This entire blue mage debate is simply another example.

[GrenGarm]

I am literally tired of living to begin with. I don't think you picked up on that.

Please seek help. For real. Life is worth living, man, no matter how bad it is. Things can change in the future, if you can find the strength to endure whatever is happening in your life right now. A single day can change everything. I met my wife in the most random way possible. You just never know. Stay open to the opportunities that life gives you!

This is exactly the sort of reason as to why I barely look at the forums. Everyone is selfish, no one likes the devs, and everyone is at one another's throats. There's no such thing as civil discourse here. There's nothing worthy of respect here. The official forums are nothing more or less than a cesspool of toxicity aimed at the people who work on this game by people who don't know better and/or have nothing better to do.

This entire blue mage debate is simply another example.

So, you must not go to other games' official forums very often. These are way better than most, honestly. But yeah, every forum is mostly complaining. That's pretty much what forums are for, because where else can we go to convey to the devs what we want? It's this or twitter, and I find the forums more civilized.

[Kalise]

This is exactly the sort of reason as to why I barely look at the forums. Everyone is selfish, no one likes the devs, and everyone is at one another's throats. There's no such thing as civil discourse here. There's nothing worthy of respect here. The official forums are nothing more or less than a cesspool of toxicity aimed at the people who work on this game by people who don't know better and/or have nothing better to do.

This entire blue mage debate is simply another example.

Are you visiting the same forums I am?

Since, I'm not seeing much toxicity, you know, outside of people who seem to be trolling by blatantly ignoring large parts of various people's posts in order to put together half baked "Arguments"...

Then of course, there's the perception of negativity, because well, forums are here for discussion. Often people only feel something is worth a discussion when there's an issue with it. Like, "Hey guys, I'm having fun with this content" has zero discussion value.

As far as "No-one likes the devs", I honestly don't get that impression. For the most part, I get the impression that people DO in fact like the devs, that's why there's always hype and discussion about new content and new sides to the story.

However, there may occasionally be decisions made that people don't agree with. This doesn't mean that they now hate the devs, it just means, that they feel a particular decision missed the mark. So they express their opinion, so to provide feedback, so that the devs can know how to approach decisions in the future to ensure that they are providing not only what they want, but what the players want too (Since, there can be some level of tunnel vision when you don't get outside opinions)

Providing feedback isn't "Knowing better than someone" it's just that, providing feedback. It's a necessary tool in any walk of life. Backing up opinions again, isn't saying that the "Devs are wrong" or that "This is objectively better" it's just you know, how discussions are done.

You know, unless like you try and "Discuss" things by initiating with hostility, to which of course you're going to get hostility and toxicity in return...

[Crushnight]

Most of it is only one of those, if not neither. That's kind of why I'm fed up.



I am literally tired of living to begin with. I don't think you picked up on that.

This is exactly the sort of reason as to why I barely look at the forums. Everyone is selfish, no one likes the devs, and everyone is at one another's throats. There's no such thing as civil discourse here. There's nothing worthy of respect here. The official forums are nothing more or less than a cesspool of toxicity aimed at the people who work on this game by people who don't know better and/or have nothing better to do.

This entire blue mage debate is simply another example.

have you seen the ty threads, the joke threads, the helpful threads they are there ofc they'll be complaints too but gotta have bad with good sometimes. As for your rl situation please seek help i rather you come back with more discussions when you start to feel better Yourself is priority 1

[Ceallach]

Please seek help. For real. Life is worth living, man, no matter how bad it is. Things can change in the future, if you can find the strength to endure whatever is happening in your life right now. A single day can change everything. I met my wife in the most random way possible. You just never know. Stay open to the opportunities that life gives you!

So, you must not go to other games' official forums very often. These are way better than most, honestly. But yeah, every forum is mostly complaining. That's pretty much what forums are for, because where else can we go to convey to the devs what we want? It's this or twitter, and I find the forums more civilized.

I'll do my best. I can promise that much.

No, I really don't go to other forums at all.

Are you visiting the same forums I am?

Since, I'm not seeing much toxicity, you know, outside of people who seem to be trolling by blatantly ignoring large parts of various people's posts in order to put together half baked "Arguments"...

Then of course, there's the perception of negativity, because well, forums are here for discussion. Often people only feel something is worth a discussion when there's an issue with it. Like, "Hey guys, I'm having fun with this content" has zero discussion value.

As far as "No-one likes the devs", I honestly don't get that impression. For the most part, I get the impression that people DO in fact like the devs, that's why there's always hype and discussion about new content and new sides to the story.

However, there may occasionally be decisions made that people don't agree with. This doesn't mean that they now hate the devs, it just means, that they feel a particular decision missed the mark. So they express their opinion, so to provide feedback, so that the devs can know how to approach decisions in the future to ensure that they are providing not only what they want, but what the players want too (Since, there can be some level of tunnel vision when you don't get outside opinions)

Providing feedback isn't "Knowing better than someone" it's just that, providing feedback. It's a necessary tool in any walk of life. Backing up opinions again, isn't saying that the "Devs are wrong" or that "This is objectively better" it's just you know, how discussions are done.

You know, unless like you try and "Discuss" things by initiating with hostility, to which of course you're going to get hostility and toxicity in return...

I expect hostility on sight because that's honestly what I'm used to. That's the kind of thing I grew up with, not civil discourse or people being fair. I expect cruelty, brutality, viciousness, and betrayal, and all too often I am proven right (even in this game's community quite a few times). Even if I were the stereotypical "perfect little angel," I still believe I'd be hated on sight. That, as far as I am able to tell, is the inescapable nature of mankind.

have you seen the ty threads, the joke threads, the helpful threads they are there ofc they'll be complaints too but gotta have bad with good sometimes. As for your rl situation please seek help i rather you come back with more discussions when you start to feel better Yourself is priority 1

I think I've seen maybe two.

As far as blue mage goes, I think it's fine as it is because I don't want to have to rely on other people to level my jobs. Especially with my history, I prefer playing alone much of the time, and because I can level blue mage just fine by simply going outside and killing things on my own, it's a welcome change from grinding the Duty Finder and deep dungeons. Heck, half the time I'd sooner take my squadron into a dungeon than other players. It's just...

What is the word I want here?

...Safer. It's safer to be alone. Don't get me wrong, there are some great people I've met in this game, but overall I'm not the type of person who puts himself out there. Therefore, blue mage as it is seems tailor-made for me, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who has this opinion, even if my reasons for that opinion are more intense than what you may hear from a "normal" person.

[Kalise]

I expect hostility on sight because that's honestly what I'm used to. That's the kind of thing I grew up with, not civil discourse or people being fair. I expect cruelty, brutality, viciousness, and betrayal, and all too often I am proven right (even in this game's community quite a few times). Even if I were the stereotypical "perfect little angel," I still believe I'd be hated on sight. That, as far as I am able to tell, is the inescapable nature of mankind.

Ehh... That's a self perpetuating notion right there.

Expecting others to be hostile, invites others to be hostile because you don't foster a presence that allows for people to be calm and respectful.

I know, it's something I often have issues with (Especially given how strongly opinionated I can be, a flaw I'm very well aware of)

As far as blue mage goes, I think it's fine as it is because I don't want to have to rely on other people to level my jobs. Especially with my history, I prefer playing alone much of the time, and because I can level blue mage just fine by simply going outside and killing things on my own, it's a welcome change from grinding the Duty Finder and deep dungeons. Heck, half the time I'd sooner take my squadron into a dungeon than other players. It's just...

What is the word I want here?

...Safer. It's safer to be alone. Don't get me wrong, there are some great people I've met in this game, but overall I'm not the type of person who puts himself out there. Therefore, blue mage as it is seems tailor-made for me, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who has this opinion, even if my reasons for that opinion are more intense than what you may hear from a "normal" person.

See, I'm of a similar mindset. I tend to like to play on my own a lot of the time, since it works best, because 1) People suck and 2) My gaming time is sporadic at best.

Which is why I noted in one of (If not actually) my first post on this topic being that BLU seemed to be essentially tailored for me, someone who enjoys solo content.

Yet, I'm still of the mind that I feel that BLU should be a regular job (In the sense of being able to access normal DF content, at least post 50, and enter raids and reach regular level caps), because I feel that would not only improve the game for myself (Since, I can always play solo, just now I'd solo up to level 80 instead of just 50/60) but also for other players, who might want to be able to main the class which they love from previous games iterations of it.

Not to mention, future jobs that I might want to play solo and solo queue for DF with, but are "Limited Jobs" and BLU is setting the precedent for if "Limited Jobs" can be allowed to experience the game proper.

Again, making the job a "Normal" one, in terms of letting it reach proper cap and letting it eventually use DF and raid, has literally no negative impact on people like us, who'd just solo grind overworld, solo a few dungeons as undersized party and basically use BLU exactly the same as its current implementation. In fact, it only has positives. Since, it means more solo content (Up to level 80), it means we can solo all the dungeons and most of the trials (Curse you Titan!!!) to learn the spells (Instead of the current implementation where you can't even solo queue for DF, you HAVE to find other people to form a group with in order to go do it for some of the higher level dungeons/trials)

Which is actually one of the reasons I'm so confused around the backlash in regards to the suggestion of "Normalizing" the job by removing the more absurd restrictions, since it literally doesn't impact people playing it casually like they would in it's current implementation...

[MagiusNecros]

Blue Mage like a lot of the other crap they add to the game is always an experiment. So let's see how it performs tomorrow yeah? Odds are if people like BLU they'll be open to adding more to it and maybe making it able to do more over time.

It's a rather different beast to all the other cookie cutter jobs in the game.

It's clear they plan to use the install base to test out how Blue Mage performs in ARR content and will judge accordingly if new jobs made in this way could set a new way to add new jobs or classes. Because I'd rather play a class that stays true to it's traditional roots in the Final Fantasy franchise.

Learning all the spells and seeing what works and what doesn't is going to be a lot of fun.

Some of the restrictions are kinda dumb. Like PvP and Deep Dungeons. Maybe it'll change later but eh whatever.

[Ceallach]

Ehh... That's a self perpetuating notion right there.

Expecting others to be hostile, invites others to be hostile because you don't foster a presence that allows for people to be calm and respectful.

I know, it's something I often have issues with (Especially given how strongly opinionated I can be, a flaw I'm very well aware of)

I'll do my best to keep that in mind. Thanks.