Wrongful kicking people on third boss in new Ivalice raid

[whiskeybravo]

Your "facts" are opinions and nothing more. As such, people have the right to call you out on them if they consider them untrue or flawed. That's not "butthurt", it's a difference in opinions.

Perhaps it was a flawed delivery, but the underlying reality is most certainly true. There is no great mystery, the majority of people who are online as soon as a patch hits are doing so to get sh!t done, not to lollygag around or troll people and wipe repeatedly. That doesn't mean you're not a "dedicated" player if you can't make it early, there are simply more dedicated players on at once during those times - hence the reports from multiple players of early runs being smoother. Such controversy.

[Vahlnir]

Perhaps it was a flawed delivery, but the underlying reality is most certainly true. There is no great mystery, the majority of people who are online as soon as a patch hits are doing so to get sh!t done, not to lollygag around or troll people and wipe repeatedly. That doesn't mean you're not a "dedicated" player if you can't make it early, there are simply more dedicated players on at once during those times - hence the reports from multiple players of early runs being smoother. Such controversy.

Trust me, it's not just a flawed delivery. Still isn't.

[WaterShield]

Perhaps it was a flawed delivery, but the underlying reality is most certainly true. There is no great mystery, the majority of people who are online as soon as a patch hits are doing so to get sh!t done, not to lollygag around or troll people and wipe repeatedly. That doesn't mean you're not a "dedicated" player if you can't make it early, there are simply more dedicated players on at once during those times - hence the reports from multiple players of early runs being smoother. Such controversy.

Trust me, it's not just a flawed delivery. Still isn't.

I would agree with Whiskey here. The balance of people on the moment servers come up from a patch are skewed towards the more hardcore. Clearly no one is trying to say that no casual people would be on, because of course time zone is a thing.

I have seen Whiskey attempting to meet you halfway and acknowledge this. You however seem to be adamant that he must present a full and unconditional surrender to your position.

I do not believe you will get your wish.

[SpiritMuse]

finding a guide for something in its first week of release really makes me question that person's reason for even playing this game. I'm not welcoming bad players, either. I just want people to learn from the mistakes they make during the fight, idc if we wipe a few times if people stop getting surprised that "oh I have to MOVE out of those orange areas, right, i forgot".

Different people learn in different ways though. While some may learn best from doing, others learn better from guides. Neither way is superior or inferior to the other.

[Vahlnir]

I would agree with Whiskey here. The balance of people on the moment servers come up from a patch are skewed towards the more hardcore. Clearly no one is trying to say that no casual people would be on, because of course time zone is a thing.

I have seen Whiskey attempting to meet you halfway and acknowledge this. You however seem to be adamant that he must present a full and unconditional surrender to your position.

I do not believe you will get your wish.

He did say that no casual would be on at that hour though. I'm not asking for a surrender...I'm just disagreeing with their position. And you're right, I'm adamant, but only about my own opinion. People are free to disagree with me, obviously.

[WaterShield]

He did say that no casual would be on at that hour though. I'm not asking for a surrender...I'm just disagreeing with their position. And you're right, I'm adamant, but only about my own opinion. People are free to disagree with me, obviously.

That would probably be better communicated with a "Let's just agree to disagree" then. However I am not attempting to look for a fight (concerned last post may be taken the wrong way due to the nature of conversation by text)

Fair enough on your opinion though.

[Seddrinth]

The only ppl I have been seeing kicked are ppl who are refusing to do mechanics no matter how many times they are explained and spending most their time face down in the dirt or are being jerks. I personally kicked two ppl this week who were just being flat out rude.

This is 100% true. Players in this game are very tolerant. If you get kicked, chances are very high that you deserved it. I've seen really bad people who were not kicked, who should have been kicked. It takes a lot for a group to collectively decide to kick someone.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

vote kicking should absolutely not be reportable. a vote to kick is a system of putting all of the players' responsibility on the table and asking "do the majority of you agree that this person should be removed from the party?"

If the players fail to pay attention and blindly hit "yes", that is a failure in the playerbase and not a reason to report the Vote kicker.

Except that preformed parties can and have abused it. In a completely pug environment I totally agree with you. However the point is moot. Turns out that it IS a policed event. I got the warning when I initiated a vote-kick for our tank that had dc'd and didn't come back at Cid. Don't know how they are policing it exactly but it warned that wrongful use of the feature could incurr...something. I didn't read the full text. Maybe its the same warning they use when you report someone. I don't remember seeing it before tho. Maybe its special for Orbonne (because that's where it happened).

[Nora_of_Mira]

Different people learn in different ways though. While some may learn best from doing, others learn better from guides. Neither way is superior or inferior to the other.

I don't think you're wrong, I just think I lean heavier on "just do it" because this is a game, after all, where most of the experience is the "doing". idk if that makes sense.

Except that preformed parties can and have abused it. In a completely pug environment I totally agree with you. However the point is moot. Turns out that it IS a policed event. I got the warning when I initiated a vote-kick for our tank that had dc'd and didn't come back at Cid. Don't know how they are policing it exactly but it warned that wrongful use of the feature could incurr...something. I didn't read the full text. Maybe its the same warning they use when you report someone. I don't remember seeing it before tho. Maybe its special for Orbonne (because that's where it happened).

that's really interesting, I wasnt aware of the warning message, tbh. I cant remember the last time I initiated a vote kick. they should probably outline it if they made changes to wrongful vote kicking (whatever that actually is).

[Vaer]

Except that preformed parties can and have abused it. In a completely pug environment I totally agree with you. However the point is moot. Turns out that it IS a policed event. I got the warning when I initiated a vote-kick for our tank that had dc'd and didn't come back at Cid. Don't know how they are policing it exactly but it warned that wrongful use of the feature could incurr...something. I didn't read the full text. Maybe its the same warning they use when you report someone. I don't remember seeing it before tho. Maybe its special for Orbonne (because that's where it happened).

I think the warning is always there. It's a policed event yes, if you use it for no reason. As far as I can tell, the listed categories are allowed (harassment, afk, offline), and GMs have come on the forums to say "difference in playstyle" is a valid reason to kick. That goes both ways though, it's kind of a gray area.

So after all that, something considered vote kick abuse would be like.. kicking someone for fun but then how do you actually prove that if there is no chat or kicking someone so you can leave with no penalty. /shrug I think it's just there to deter obvious trolling and make people think twice if they really should be kicking someone.

I did Orbonne today and my party had 1 new person, on 3rd boss they got marked for both double reds which they dropped right on the bridge, got hit by every in/and out and probably died 5+ times. Still got through the entire raid with 0 wipes. We didn't kick him because he was new, just told him to pay a bit more attention. It's pretty lenient tbh. You can shrug the bleeds off from the colliding reds if the healers are paying attention.