Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[Huntrss]

Like I said before wait until Jan. 15th .. funny part is really with 24 out of 49 spells we could pick and use what is best and stick to that. that's thing though we could make a Balance Spell list by our self and only you that.

[Songwillow]

The only thing I can say to those that have a problem with the idea of BLU, especially when it hasn't come out yet is "Cry more, your tears are delicious."

You are complaining about something that isn't even out yet. You are complaining about something that is so vastly different from any other class due to it's core design. We asked for a BLU mage and I cannot imagine any way to implement it in a form that would work in balanced manner. This is simply the concept of a class that is designed to learn from monsters and use already established enemy abilities in some form. This isn't MEANT to raid, this isn't MEANT to level in the normal way. It is its own unique entity and it should be seen as such by people, not as another cookie cutter class. I'm glad they are releasing something different, I'm tired of doing the same thing day in and day out for leveling and progression. This is a breath of fresh air for most people, but I'm not sorry that it doesn't work for the hardcore.

[Kalise]

-Snip-

You're talking as if the literal only way to make BLU be unique is to push these limitations onto them.

Meanwhile, there's actually a TON of design space available to make BLU a completely distinct and wholly unique class, you know, without restricting them from being able to participate in like 90% of the game's content and not even be particularly unique in the 10% of the content they CAN actually do...

Like, as a "Normal" class, they could still push leveling into the Overworld (Such as restricting duty finder until level 50/60/70/80 or something).

They could still push the Learning spells mechanic in lieu of Class Quests (Maybe they could have put in class quests that basically say "Go learn X core spell everyone would ask you to have in order to do group content").

They could still create new and different progression systems to use.

They could still allow the use of a multitude of enemy skills (Just restrict the OP ones in dungeons/raids. You know, like they already are doing with Level 5 Death not being usable on final bosses in dungeons. Restrictions could come in the form of outright making abilities unusable, or just tuning them down so instead of doing 10000 Potency damage they instead do a more reasonable 500 or something, explicitly while inside Duties)

Literally, I cannot think of a single convincing argument that would necessitate restriction of the class so heavily. Especially when much, if not all, of the "Cool" and "Unique" features that are being utilized could still function without such restrictions.

[ReiMakoto]

The only thing I can say to those that have a problem with the idea of BLU, especially when it hasn't come out yet is "Cry more, your tears are delicious."

You are complaining about something that isn't even out yet. You are complaining about something that is so vastly different from any other class due to it's core design. We asked for a BLU mage and I cannot imagine any way to implement it in a form that would work in balanced manner. This is simply the concept of a class that is designed to learn from monsters and use already established enemy abilities in some form. This isn't MEANT to raid, this isn't MEANT to level in the normal way. It is its own unique entity and it should be seen as such by people, not as another cookie cutter class. I'm glad they are releasing something different, I'm tired of doing the same thing day in and day out for leveling and progression. This is a breath of fresh air for most people, but I'm not sorry that it doesn't work for the hardcore.

Well just looking through the data mine having a balanced blu seems rather easy, use the skills they already are putting in, have a checklist you need to make with those skills (i.e, need 1 cone 130 attack, 1 aoe centered on you ect) then tune some of the skills that seem more "OP" to have reasonable numbers. Seriously, nothing in that skill list screams OP or unbalanced other than the skills SE chose to make crazy (30% peculiar light, potency on sting seems a bit high). With the number of repeat skills blu has, its not even much of an issue. The BLU implementation we're getting is close enough to a regular job that the extra legwork might as well be put in to get it there, then just add in checklists to get it into DF, (i.e. don't just put on fish slap.). Hate to break it to you, but from the skills shown, it does seem rather cookie cutter with some odd quirks, most of which are not particularly useful when you stop and think.

[Songwillow]

-snip-

Actually yes that is exactly what I'm saying. It is the literal only way to make a Blue Mage work in this system. Have you ever played any other final fantasy game? Building it in any other way than how it is going to be is simply not a BLU mage. This is really why Yoshi P didn't want the class because it doesn't have a proper place in standard gaming and progression. However it was pushed through either way and here we are with the BLU mage as we have it. What do you want them to do? Learn their actions via leveling like every other class? That isn't a Blue Mage in FF Lore, that is just a restricted Mime.

This is a class that is known in the series to have DPS, tanking, and healing abilities. This class is such a catch all that building it for anything else is too difficult for the team to effectively balance. BLU is the literal wild card of classes. It can do pretty much everything. The only thing I can imagine them doing is tagging skills so that they are General, DPS, Tank, and Healers actions and require a specific number of certain group of action to be able to go into a dungeon. However doing so would almost nullify any reason to play anything else. You would have tons of BLUs playing in a dungeon where one tanks, one heals, and two DPS. They don't want to nullify the point of other classes.

The class needs the waters tested to fine tune the class since there are millions of combinations of actions to set on your bar and some combos might actually affect progression by either making it too hard or too easy. There is not some static middle ground. I imagine that this class was tested for a long time to see if it can work but they released it first because they need the masses to actually come up with unpredictable ability combos.

[GrenGarm]

The only thing I can say to those that have a problem with the idea of BLU, especially when it hasn't come out yet is "Cry more, your tears are delicious."

Very mature.

You are complaining about something that isn't even out yet.

Welcome to a video game forum. I don't have to play BLU to know I hate the concept of it as a limited job, and the idea of limited jobs in general. BLU's gameplay will not change my mind. If anything, if it's really fun, I'll be even more angry about the way they went about designing the job.

You are complaining about something that is so vastly different from any other class due to it's core design. We asked for a BLU mage and I cannot imagine any way to implement it in a form that would work in balanced manner.

Your imagination is pretty lacking then.

This is simply the concept of a class that is designed to learn from monsters and use already established enemy abilities in some form. This isn't MEANT to raid, this isn't MEANT to level in the normal way. It is its own unique entity and it should be seen as such by people, not as another cookie cutter class.

We know. That's why we hate it. It wouldn't have to be a cookie cutter class. This is a strawman argument.

I'm glad they are releasing something different, I'm tired of doing the same thing day in and day out for leveling and progression. This is a breath of fresh air for most people, but I'm not sorry that it doesn't work for the hardcore.

I'm not even remotely hardcore. I've always played this game solo, just using the Duty Finder. It's actually the hardcore who will get the most out of BLU because they'll have hardcore friends in their free companies to group with and get all the max-level BLU abilities ASAP.

It's because I'm NOT hardcore that I want a BLU that can use the Duty Finder.

If you are sick of the same old leveling and progression, go play Smash Bros. That's what MMOs are about.

[Songwillow]

-snip-

Look when I say 'cry more' because I am just tired of people just complaining for complaining sake over something that they haven't even tried. It is like a child that says that don't want to get their veggies because they taste gross yet they never have tasted it before.

My whole point is play it after it comes out and then you can knit pick at it.

I'm not trying to be confrontational and I'm not directing the anger to anyone specific it is generalized frustrations and arguments. I am trying to understand where the devs are coming from and support their ideas instead of being negative of what the class can and cannot do. When all you see on the forums is complaints, it just ruins your experience. Sorry if I'm being blunt, but I just have to tell it like I see it.

[Kalise]

Actually yes that is exactly what I'm saying. It is the literal only way to make a Blue Mage work in this system.

Did you even read my post?

I literally stated, they could keep BLU being revolving around Learning spells and having a plethora of weird things and STILL be not locked out of Duty Finder/MSQ/Raids.

The restrictions to group play, literally has 0 interaction with all of the unique things that BLU is getting. Except the ironic part where solo players get screwed over because in order to learn some skills you need to make parties to grind dungeons...

Yoshi P's statement literally has only a single reason against having BLU as without content restrictions, which was "Worlds first raids wouldn't use a BLU because it takes time for them to learn their skills at the start of an expac"

Also, what's the problem with a class being flexible in their role? Why couldn't they just allow people to gear towards a role and select a role when they queue for dungeons (If they actually make them able to Tank/Heal real content. As opposed to being a "Tank" in the same way that a SMN with Titan-Egi out is a "Tank" i.e. having "Tank" skills but only being meaningful in solo content or a "Healer" in the way that RDM is a "Healer" because they have a decent heal skill and plethora of insta-raises thanks to their Dual Cast mechanic)

Also, how would it nullify the reason to play something else? Currently WAR is objectively the best Tank in the game. Does this mean that PLD and DRK are irrelevant and never played? SCH is objectively the best healer in the game. Does this mean AST and WHM are irrelevant and never played?

Sure, you might get some people who do full BLU runs, but then you miss out on unique aspects of other classes (Such as the crit buffs from BRD and SCH, Piercing debuff from DRG, card buffs from AST, single target LB's from melee DPS etc.) as well as maybe some people just prefer playing other classes (For example, SCH may be objectively the best healer, but I hate playing as one. I prefer to use AST/WHM instead)

Again, you've not really provided any substantial argument on WHY limiting BLU is necessary, as opposed to allowing them to be a "Normal" class but having all of their strange quirks such as their learning system, leveling via Overworld and semi-flexibility through skills.

[Cidel]

Yoshi P's statement literally has only a single reason against having BLU as without content restrictions, which was "Worlds first raids wouldn't use a BLU because it takes time for them to learn their skills at the start of an expac"

While I'm not so sure about that being his only reason, this excuse just doesn't seem to hold water either. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, "World's first" raids aren't usually even available at the start of the expansion. If I recall for HW and SB, they staggered their raid release a week or two after the expansion went live. For some time, all you really had available for battle content at endgame were the EX primals at launch. And somehow I doubt that learning spells is that much of an issue for the hardcore "World's First," if they have about one or two week's time to learn spells before a raid tier is even introduced.

[ksuyen]

Lots of the discussion here raise more questions than answers. I suppose all, if not most, questions will be answered next week when they release BLU. Meanwhile, speculation is fun but whining is not. I honestly don't care if SE want to create a unique class that can't join Duty Finder as long as it is different in all the ways from leveling to spells learning, because the current solo leveling after the nth class is boring and I just want to have something different kind of fun alone. People who want to main BLU is just deluding themselves for BLU is nothing but an alternative job for your main.