Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272

[KaivaC]

It's rather amusing that some of the ones defending undergeared players somehow forget that the average DF is not very competent at their jobs...

[Keddera_StormMoon]

Fixed.

I'd still take an undergeared player who knows their job over an overgeared player that doesn't.

Just keep building that strawman.

I don't think you understand what a strawman is actually - because none of us are actually arguing about skill level at this point. That's just changing the subject.

But I fully understand you know you've been backed into a corner and ran out of a viable arguments at this point. But I guess your pride won't let you accept that.

[Liam_Harper]

I'd still take an undergeared player who knows their job over an overgeared player that doesn't.

And what makes you think the undergeared player who couldn't even be bothered to gear properly is going to have put the effort in learning their class properly and the player who put the effort into having the appropriate gear is going to have no idea how to play?

9 times out of 10, the geared player cares about their performance on all levels while your undergeared player just wants to be lv70 fast, doesn't care and is under the illusion they're gods gift to DF.

This isn't gearing to 400 for savage. Weapons and accessories don't have defense, so you're talking acquiring just 6 left side pieces, even in NQ from a vendor. If you can't put in that most basic amount of effort, then yes you have no right to participate in a team activity.
Not to mention, floor 21-30 HoH runs are just as efficient as dungeons for exp and require no gear. So you aren't even locked out from leveling.

[Hamada]

You guys really hate horses.

If you think you can run away from replies hoping people will forget them, well you are sadly mistaken:

But we can certainly prove by deductive reasoning that SE is OK with entering Castrum Abania in whatever gear your wearing when you unlock it since there is no other explicit limitation or requirement set forth.

By that logic, it's perfectly fine to enter Castrum Abania in level 1 glamour gear. The dungeon isn't gonna stop you like the 50, 60 and 70 dungeons, after all.
Most people, specifically in PuGs, don't enjoy the feeling of carrying someone to victory. Especially if that victory involves an Extreme Trial and mounts in the loot pool. It sucks when you're one of the few people who do everything right and carry the group (with two-six others) and then lose out on a roll for the mount when someone who KO'd 5+ times gets it (it almost feels like a pyramid scheme).

Guess I belong!

Stop telling people it is ok to undergear please

[Hamada]

Raises hand

I've done this twice now on two different jobs.

Oh my gf would like to add something in regards to this:
When leveling during 4.0, and early SB I took all my jobs from 60 to 70. I would meld everything, even if it was not needed because 2k-10k per materia is nothing. Sometimes I would penta meld @ level crafted gear for missing slots because this game throws gil at you and I got nothing else to do with it, so might as well? Even if I do that, I would not tell people it is needed. What is needed however, is having a good amount of gear from the past 2 dungeons so you are not causing a healer to baby sit you. I would of most likely kicked this tank that made this post if low gear was causing too much of a burden. I am not going to be healing 24-7 just because "an experienced player" wants to rush things.

I am really shocked at some of the replies here, acting like gearing is hard or the excuse "it is easy it is not savage so I do not have to gear" well you know what? that very same thing can be said back at you. "It is easy, running a dungeon a few times to gear so you are not causing other players headaches is not savage, so stop complaining that you can't add 20-40 minutes of playtime and just get it done. "

well, what you guys think of her input on this? Only posting as a reply to "Go ahead and find me the player that runs the same leveling dungeon repeatedly just so they can be fully decked out in that dungeons gear before moving on to the next." the basic answer on what my gf was saying is, she would just run the current dungeon for her level, then when she could access the next, would do so. If a slot was older then 1-3 dungeons (depends how she felt about the specific slot) she would simply replace it with market board gear and triple to penta meld it.

[whiskeybravo]

Stop telling people it is ok to undergear please

Nowhere did I say it was OK for people to undergear content. Simple fact is, I rarely even bother to look at people's gear because, by and large, it's entirely irrelevant. But I'm certainly not going to harass someone or try to force them to repeat a dungeon so they can have 1 or 2 more item levels. Nope, I go in, do my job, give comm if it's appropriate, and move the F on. Which is what the healer in OP should've done IMO.

Change my mind.

I don't think you understand what a strawman is actually - because none of us are actually arguing about skill level at this point. .

The strawman in this case, if you've been following, is the mythical full-shire tank that actually doesn't exist in this story.

[HyoMinPark]

The strawman in this case, if you've been following, is the mythical full-shire tank that actually doesn't exist in this story.

In the OP's story, no.

But the defense of i270 (i.e., Augmented Shire gear) started from as early as post #3 and was contested immediately after. And it has now taken over the thread. Debating the validity of a claim brought up by someone other than the OP is not a strawman. It's simply a derailment/tangent at this point, and posters have noted that they find both fairly controversial - the i272 and the i270 later brought up.

The OP being i272 is not too terribly far off from i270. You claim they'll still have a mix of gear from the other dungeons (at least a couple pieces, if I recall your wording correctly), but if these pieces are just item level inflations on the right side and not a major piece on the right (e.g., weapon, body, or legs), not much really changes - accessories do not provide extra defense (or even VIT), and the defense gains are greatest from the body piece and legs, less so from head, gloves, and feet, and little in terms of the belt.

[whiskeybravo]

You claim they'll still have a mix of gear from the other dungeons (at least a couple pieces, if I recall your wording correctly), but if these pieces are just item level inflations on the right side and not a major piece on the right (e.g., weapon, body, or legs), not much really changes - accessories do not provide extra defense (or even VIT), and the defense gains are greatest from the body piece and legs, less so from head, gloves, and feet, and little in terms of the belt.

I haven't read every comment but the OP did not elaborate on their exact gear set, so everybody is just assuming worst case scenario? Being a tank myself I know the accessories are fairly useless, pretty sure I used a mix 270 str accessories with a couple new vit as I found them. It is a well-known fact that tank item levels are lower on average due to the accessory debacle, so even in the event you are awarded with new tank accessories from leveling it might actually end up being a loss. Gearing a tank is not like every other job where item level trumps all.

But that's OK, just keep harassing people over their gear. That's not against the ToS or anything.

[HyoMinPark]

Go ahead and find me the player that runs the same leveling dungeon repeatedly just so they can be fully decked out in that dungeons gear before moving on to the next.

Good for you guys, have a cookie.

It's a biased crowd

I don’t understand this: people give you what you asked for, but then you accuse them of being “biased”? Why is that? Is it because some of the posters who answered you are raiders? Because they’ve mentioned previously about caring about their gear? Because they disagree with your position? What is your criteria for calling it biased?

Let me guess, all of you are waiting until you're max item level 400 before trying out Alphascape savage, too?

This comment is fairly uncalled for, to be honest. It’s just a derisive comment against those who gave you exactly what you asked for. It’s been discussed previously that the difference in DEF/M.DEF values between i290 (beginner 70 gear) and i380/i390 (current 70 gear most available to the masses) is less than the difference between i270 (Shire or Shisui) and the level 68 HQ crafted. The same applies for i380 > i400: it’s, at most, survivability cushioning for o11s and o12s.

I haven't read every comment but the OP did not elaborate on their exact gear set, so everybody is just assuming worst case scenario? Being a tank myself I know the accessories are fairly useless, pretty sure I used a mix 270 str accessories with a couple new vit as I found them. It is a well-known fact that tank item levels are lower on average due to the accessory debacle, so even in the event you are awarded with new tank accessories from leveling it might actually end up being a loss. Gearing a tank is not like every other job where item level trumps all.

No, as far as I am aware, they did not. But how is you getting testy over “people assuming the worst” when it’s very possible you could be “assuming the best” with your comment about the gear? Were you assuming that their not-i270 pieces were some of the best they could get (weapon, body, or legs)? If so, how does that really make you different from those assuming the worst? Speaking for myself, I was assuming smaller upgrades, as getting accessories and perhaps a belt or maybe hands/feet seems to be far more common (and easier since there are 4 accessories) than getting a major piece such as the body or legs.

No, item level does not “trump all” for tanks, but you are speaking about something that has to deal with endgame tanking and the maximizing of substats, not leveling, where the focus is not on substats.

Again, there is a larger difference between the DEF/M.DEF and main stats of SB leveling gear than there is between the DEF and main stats of the gear available at cap. Considering most posters are pointing out the discrepancies in DEF/M.DEF and NOT substats, accessories shouldn’t even be considered in the argument, as they give only 1/1.

But that's OK, just keep harassing people over their gear. That's not against the ToS or anything.

If you’re accusing me of harassment, I think you should go through and actually re-read the thread in its entirety.

Disagreeing with your position that the gear isn’t an issue does not consitute as harassment either. I’m allowed to disagree with you on a public forum, as are others.

[Hamada]

Nowhere did I say it was OK for people to undergear content. Simple fact is, I rarely even bother to look at people's gear because, by and large, it's entirely irrelevant.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to my post, what you do, what you check, and what you "harass" has nothing to do with what I said. If a undergeared tank is "harassing" the group by making the healer's job too hard, and clearly by the op's story 272 fits that, it will be valid to kick them. You do realize the OP here is only one side of the story right?

Do I need to quote you again because you literally did say you are ok with people going under geared, and same reason why you seem to think 272 tanks in Castrum Abania in a pug setting seems to be fine. Not everyone is going to be fine with it, not every healer is going to be fine babysitting that.

I haven't read every comment but the OP did not elaborate on their exact gear set, so everybody is just assuming worst case scenario?

I went into detail of that before, and that is honestly the OP's fault. They only wanted to come here to see if others where fine with 272 in Castrum Abania and the answer is no. The tank in question may very well be weaker then full augmented shire as well, who are you to assume the best case? The 270 argument was done exactly for this reason, it is something we can look at, stat totals and such, and it is the same comments I told with one poster talking about if 250 is ok for the first 2 dungeons and my answer is, depends on what the gear is.