Minfilia or Lyse?

[Ameela]

I don't really see this as a problem to be honest given that the WOL is pretty much just a player self insert and the story never ceases praising us and making us the center of attention. What does Lyse do that actually steals attention away from the WOL? Sure she gets a moment here or there I guess like getting the finishing blow on Lakshmi int he 4.1 fight by and large I never felt like the focus was being taken away from the WOL.

I think this was definitely a big problem in the climax of the game actually.
When Zenos is defeated and is about to kill himself, he's giving this whole speech about how grandiose the event was because he got to fight the Warrior of Light and stuff like that, then Lyse comes along and takes what could have been a meaningful moment between the player and Zenos and just starts spouting what she thinks of Zenos for no reason, as if she had any right to confront him lol, it's actually surprising that Zenos even acknowledges her at that point.

Then you get the big dramatic leap where she's all "nooo don't kill yourself" like ooo the struggle! Lyse you go girl, such a noble character, I'm glad she was able to bond with Zenos in a twisted way to make that scene and her motivations justifiable... or am I thinking of another character and Lyse just happens to be hogging the spotlight for some reason?

[Aellae]

While I wasn't too much a fan of Minfilia, I was really disappointed by Lyse. I liked Yda a lot and even though I know she was playing her part, I still figured she might turn out as a strong character for the story. But she literally did nothing during Stormblood. Makes you appreciate Minfilia at least a little bit.

[kikix12]

To be fair, Minfilia does a lot of work. We just don't see most of it because we spend little time in the office. Minfilia is an administrator. Her job is to assign the right tasks to the right people and make sure everything runs smoothly, not to do everything herself. While I don't really like Minfilia as a character, there's no denying that she is very good at what she does.

I'm sorry, but I just cannot agree with that.

All the big cases were solved by us. We've thus seen all of them and their management.

And the smaller stuff and intelligence gathering?! Yeah. In every meeting I can think of, the people that came out with the task distribution were actually...the ones that did them. Sorry, but asking "Who's going to go to X?" is neither hard nor worthy of mention. She couldn't even do a single thing well, convince the host to make an aetheryte in town without ending up on his leash.

Literally the only thing I can remember her doing is call all those pointless meetings or pass messages from one to the other. That's a secretary's work at best. And though that's certainly important...it's the kind that can be done by anyone else in absence of one. So nothing special.

Now, you can say all you want that "she worked in the background"...but what kind of work was exactly left?! Money? Nope, that's Tataru Taru. Information gathering? That's divided into Urianger for research of phenomenon and magic (plus Yshtola for some), and Yshtola, Yda with Papalymo and Thancred for field work. Diplomacy?! Yeah, from the moment he became a Scion, Alphinaud did that (often with us in tow). What's left?! Sweeping the floor, maybe. And playing a gopher moving messages from one person to another. No wonder she called the Warrior of Light every possibility she had, she wanted to vent on the only person that actually allowed themselves to be pushed around.

[Bright-Flower]

I think this was definitely a big problem in the climax of the game actually.
When Zenos is defeated and is about to kill himself, he's giving this whole speech about how grandiose the event was because he got to fight the Warrior of Light and stuff like that, then Lyse comes along and takes what could have been a meaningful moment between the player and Zenos and just starts spouting what she thinks of Zenos for no reason, as if she had any right to confront him lol, it's actually surprising that Zenos even acknowledges her at that point.

Then you get the big dramatic leap where she's all "nooo don't kill yourself" like ooo the struggle! Lyse you go girl, such a noble character, I'm glad she was able to bond with Zenos in a twisted way to make that scene and her motivations justifiable... or am I thinking of another character and Lyse just happens to be hogging the spotlight for some reason?

Eh, maybe I'd agree but I was so disinterested in zenos as a character that I didn't really care when he had his 'farewell my friend my enemy' line. The reason the scene bugs me isn't that another character showed up, but that we were specifically told NOT to take Zenos alive before going into Ala Mhigo, but then after the quest it's all 'nooooo don't kill yourseeeeeeelf you coward.' It's like the game forgot that it told us not to take Zenos alive anyway.

[Brightamethyst]

I'm sorry, but I just cannot agree with that.

That's like saying an office manager does nothing just because there's also an accountant, a floor supervisor, and a project manager. Someone has to keep everything in line and running smoothly. It's just that that part is mostly boring so we don't see it.

In between every interesting discussion about primals and ascians there are weeks and months of the regular day to day meetings and office work that we have no involvement in.

[wereotter]

Lyse punted a Namazu so hard she left him with stars over his head for four cutscenes.

Minfinila never seemed to understand how linkpearls worked. "Please travel all the way across Eorzea so I can talk to you"

This isn't even a conversation. Lyse by a mile.

[Solarra]

To be fair, Minfilia does a lot of work. We just don't see most of it

I'd go further and say we don't see any of it. I notice that Lolorito makes a big thing about Minfillia's unnatural gifts of persuasion at the Uldah banquet and Krile also refers to it, but I cannot think of one single example from the game where she uses this talent.
More recently, Alisae spoke about the diplomatic ties that Minfillia had forged with various organisations and how they would be invaluable in solving the present crisis, but we didn't see any of that diplomacy. Most of the time Minfillia was just standing around in her room doing nothing. Tataru, who is only the receptionist, gets a lot more time on screen and a lot more character development. It's poor writing imo; actions speak louder than words and despite being an supposedly important character in the story, Minfillia wasn't given an active role. Unfortunately they seem to be going down a similar path with Lyse.

[Alleo]

I'd go further and say we don't see any of it. I notice that Lolorito makes a big thing about Minfillia's unnatural gifts of persuasion at the Uldah banquet and Krile also refers to it, but I cannot think of one single example from the game where she uses this talent.
More recently, Alisae spoke about the diplomatic ties that Minfillia had forged with various organisations and how they would be invaluable in solving the present crisis, but we didn't see any of that diplomacy. Most of the time Minfillia was just standing around in her room doing nothing. Tataru, who is only the receptionist, gets a lot more time on screen and a lot more character development. It's poor writing imo; actions speak louder than words and despite being an supposedly important character in the story, Minfillia wasn't given an active role. Unfortunately they seem to be going down a similar path with Lyse.

I think that is the big problem that I have with Minfilia too. We saw how all the other scions did their important part in the task (even if most of the fighting was still done by us) but we never really saw Minfilia doing something important. Maybe this could have been done by giving us some side quests with her, where we are acting as some kind of bodyguard while she does all the diplomatic stuff? Or maybe have some scenes with her (after we got her the dagger) where we are helping her with a bit of self defence because she feels that she needs to be able to protect herself. Even if she still was kidnapped it would feel at least like she is trying to improve herself in that part. Because she should know that she is a big target and having no single experience in fighting is just bad. I mean even Tataru tried her best with the carbuncle.

Its just sad that she is told to be such an important character, yet do we really feel her absence? I mean the scions even said that they dont need a leader right now and Tataru seemingly handles the rest quite well.

[kikix12]

That's like saying an office manager does nothing just because there's also an accountant, a floor supervisor, and a project manager. Someone has to keep everything in line and running smoothly. It's just that that part is mostly boring so we don't see it.

Do you want my honest opinion?! The people in managerial positions I've come across in real life were actually quite useless most of the time.

1) They did paperwork that shouldn't even have been needed, just because some higher-tier manager was equally needing something to "do", so they made a new responsibility that no one needed.
2) They tried to tell someone that knows better how to do something for the fact of actually doing it, how to do it. Often to the detriment...because these managers never actually did the job they were talking about, so they didn't know a thing bout it.
3) If they felt bored and felt like being actually creative, they tried to do something that's part of another persons responsibility.


Now, don't get me wrong. I know those are few examples and anecdotal to boot, but they had something in common. Those were parts of jobs where workers were pretty much self-sufficient. In jobs that are either very repetitive or necessitate fast response, self-sufficiency is MANDATORY. And there is nothing that requires fast response more than a havoc-wreaking, brainwashing god that seeks to devour everything. That's why the Scions are self-sufficient. And that's why Minfilia is so badly written (not only her, mind you, but she's the only character that have such a scope that is this badly written).

Not only does she not show any signs of...doing anything (and say what you about it being too boring to show, but there was no reason to not show a cutscene when entering the atrium with Minfilia sitting behind a pile of papers, signing or stamping them at least)...but she actually sends the player on crap quests while there's a potentially continent-scale calamity upon the world.

In between every interesting discussion about primals and ascians there are weeks and months of the regular day to day meetings and office work that we have no involvement in.

What office work?! Excuse me, but is it a company under legal contracts having to make reports to some force above?!

Sorry, but Scions were always (in 2.0+ at least) a group of people that are together only because of a common goal. They do not actually answer to anyone. The major duty was actual contact with the three Grand Companies, yes, because three major nations military forces were more prone to get information about troubles brewing fast than a relatively small group of volunteers. But the actual "paperwork" beyond the finances should have been kept to minimum. ESPECIALLY outside of the hectic times. If nothing was happening...what was that paperwork actually for?!


The point stands. Minfilia could have been shown doing something. She could have been shown meeting with Merlwyb, Kan-E-Senna or Raubahn, she could be shown actually managing people even if briefly. Instead her only presence was to call a meeting where she said what someone else told her (Urianger most often) then told the person in question to tell that same thing just in more detail. These meetings were basically holding themselves with how everyone have been deciding for themselves with minimal to no input from her. Other than that it was just calling the player character back and forth over the pettiest reports that could have been done over the linkpearl.

So yes. She did suck in the very little work she was supposed to do, because with how much trouble was brewing, Warrior of Light as the most important field agent should NEVER even need to come to the "headquarters". If Minfilia's job was to manage tasks, then SHE FAILED horribly. You don't drag someone halfway across the continent to you for a report when there's numerous things for that person to do all around. You have them make that report while on their way to their next destination. If it's of the top-secret sort, you find ways for them to make it so. By sending a messenger, for example.

[Brightamethyst]

What office work?! Excuse me, but is it a company under legal contracts having to make reports to some force above?!

Do you really think the organization just runs itself? Someone has to make sure all the employees get paid, and that the rent is paid, and that the Rising Stones break room is stocked, and that all the investors are still happy, and that those two scouts who hate each other don't get assigned to the same recon team, etc... All that and a million other little things that keep the place going. We just don't see any of it because of the vast majority of the day to day is boring and unimportant to us.