Elitist behaviour in dungeons: [venting]

[Ilan]

Now, before all you keyboard warriors out there starts angrily mashing keys, hear me out.

Let me start by saying that "being elitist" is by no means a bad thing. It means you care a lot about the game, which I do too. And of course, if you've poured X-amounts of hours into the game to learn everything, you wanna be as efficient as possible, because why not right?

But what I'm talking about is "elitist behaviour", which is completely different. When you join a dungeon, go through it for 30 sec, sees one of the party members not playing 100% efficiently, trashtalk them for a bit (no optimizing suggestions, no questions about their playstyle or anything else) and then leave; now THAT is 100% unequivocally a toxic way to be in general. And I'm, quite frankly, getting tired of seeing it (despite it not happening super-often).

I get it. You wanna go fast, you wanna crack as many dungeons as you can so you can level X class to the current cap (or whatever else you're trying to accomplish). I 100% get it. But if you queue randomly, you run the risk of (dramatic drumroll) encountering someone that doesn't know/want to play the most optimal way.

If you wanna be 100% certain to be able to go as fast as you want/everyone to play as efficiently as possible, queue with your FC. And if you queue randomly and you encounter what I've mentioned above (or something else, who knows), talk about it or suck it up. It's that simple.

Thank you and have an otherwise great day.

I don't see any elitism in your post. The only thing i see is that you found a jerk.

You also mention the point "no optimizing suggestion, no questions about their playstyle or anything else", if players do this people will also run into the the forum and complain about elitism like they did so many times before. Just wanted to mention it and not trying to defend a jerk.

[St0rmchild]

This might be important to remember (for everyone, on all sides of this argument):

When you choose to apply for ANY duty on Duty Finder rmember that it means you can be matched with ANYONE that qualifies for that duty, level/gear wise.

This includes, but is not limited to:
- Someone who's been struggling through content and just maanged to unlock it, having no clue what to do.
- Someone who's leveling/learning his alt class and hasn't quite got the rotation/knack for it.
- Someone who's comfortable doing things his way, and might not play the same style as you do.
- Someone who neurotically monitors parsers, spends evenings on spreadsheets tuning his character stats/gear/rotation to 101% efficiency.
- Someone who doesn't give a damn about the duty in question, all they want is the tomestones, and as fast as possible.

And any combination of that.
And possibly even stereotypes I missed.

This is what you must accept on Duty Finder.

If you cannot, or do not want to:

** DON'T APPLY TO ANYTHING ON DUTY FINDER **

I won't say I'm a saint, because I've had obstinate/obstructive/exasperated moments on DF myself (on both sides of it and I'll admit it) but for 99.9% of the time, the above is what I keep in mind when applying.

If I see people struggle on rotation, I'll try carefully: "Hey no offense but I noticed that ..."
If I see newbie bonus, I try and talk people through mechanics; sometimes on the fly (in case of rushers), preferably in advance.
If I see someone being a dick to someone trying to keep up, I stand up for that person -- and if it's aimed at me I'll happily point out why I'm struggling
(I'm new/not comfy with the duty/haven'tr done this much) and I'll ask for advice. If that advice consists of/amounts to "l2p scrub/git gud/stfu noob" etc
I have no problem dropping or getting dismissed.
Ultimately the joke's on them - they're now a person short and either I get to reapply, or a 30 minute break to cool down and try again.

[Insertcoins]

What sucks is telling the group you're new and all of a sudden healer pulls cause they want fast runs. It's like... HELLO? NEW TANK HERE. Can you NOT go in like sonic the stupid hedgehog please? The point of that is people seriously need to stop just thinking about me me meme me meme mememememe mememe. and think about other people for once. But that's impossible cause everyone is selfish.

[DevasWar]

This might be important to remember (for everyone, on all sides of this argument):

When you choose to apply for ANY duty on Duty Finder rmember that it means you can be matched with ANYONE that qualifies for that duty, level/gear wise.

This includes, but is not limited to:
- Someone who's been struggling through content and just maanged to unlock it, having no clue what to do.
- Someone who's leveling/learning his alt class and hasn't quite got the rotation/knack for it.
- Someone who's comfortable doing things his way, and might not play the same style as you do.
- Someone who neurotically monitors parsers, spends evenings on spreadsheets tuning his character stats/gear/rotation to 101% efficiency.
- Someone who doesn't give a damn about the duty in question, all they want is the tomestones, and as fast as possible.

God, if this isn't the most fantastic way to put this, I've ever seen, THANK YOU!

And yeah, just to 100% clarify, I was mostly referring to the people who care so much about the 101% efficiency, they'd rather bail than take slightly longer on a dungeon. And that also happen to play (how do I put this without making it sound dumb) "important roles". You know, if a dps leaves, not too big a hit to the party, there's almost always plenty other dps to be found and can be swapped out instantly, but a healer/tank bailing can, in worst case scenarios, take upwards of 20 minutes to replace, especially when you've already started the dungeon and they have to join "party in progress".

And it sucks even more, when it's someones attempt at continuing the msq, since you almost have nothing else to do before it's done.

But tldr; your quote is spot on.

[Taika]

What sucks is telling the group you're new and all of a sudden healer pulls cause they want fast runs.

If the newbie tank is only taking one group at a time, and the healer is experienced and capable of pulling more to the group without causing any danger, why would that suck? All the newbie tank has to do is use their AoE enmity stuff on the additional enemies as the healer pulls them to the group. The healer is making the run more efficient for the whole group and the tank is learning what they can (or are supposed to) pull in that instance. It's not detrimental to anyone.

[Ilan]

If the newbie tank is only taking one group at a time, and the healer is experienced and capable of pulling more to the group without causing any danger, why would that suck? All the newbie tank has to do is use their AoE enmity stuff on the additional enemies as the healer pulls them to the group. The healer is making the run more efficient for the whole group and the tank is learning what they can (or are supposed to) pull in that instance. It's not detrimental to anyone.

It is bad because the newbee tank has to learn and if someone always runs and pulls he doesn't learn anything besides that people are impacient. Doesn't hurt anyone to take it slower with a new player to make sure he/she learns instead of having another uncapable tank that doesn't know shit with level 70.

[Taika]

It is bad because the newbee tank has to learn and if someone always runs and pulls he doesn't learn anything besides that people are impacient.

And what exactly does the tank learn by pulling 1 group at a time? Someone adding monsters in the pull, if the tank does not do so, may at least show the tank that the group is well able to handle significantly larger groups and will hopefully encourage the tank to pull more.

[St0rmchild]

It is bad because the newbee tank has to learn and if someone always runs and pulls he doesn't learn anything besides that people are impacient. Doesn't hurt anyone to take it slower with a new player to make sure he/she learns instead of having another uncapable tank that doesn't know shit with level 70.

If I'm the healer in a group like that I'll encourage the tank "don't worry, you cannot overpull me -- I can keep the group alive; keep going!" but ultimately the weakest of either tank or healer determine what you can or cannot pull.

[Insertcoins]

If the newbie tank is only taking one group at a time, and the healer is experienced and capable of pulling more to the group without causing any danger, why would that suck? All the newbie tank has to do is use their AoE enmity stuff on the additional enemies as the healer pulls them to the group. The healer is making the run more efficient for the whole group and the tank is learning what they can (or are supposed to) pull in that instance. It's not detrimental to anyone.

This doesn't work on me cause I don't pull single groups. So no. Don't pull in front of me cause you're trying to be sonic. It does nothing for your speed if you die cause 3 groups was too small for you. Which is what happened. :/ I get people don't like small groups which is why I don't do that. But even still there's no reason to run ahead of the tank. If the tank is pulling reasonably- tho tbh that depends on what the tank is comfortable with- then why pull before them? All that does is make you look like an ass. If the tank is going a step a day fine. But I sprint. If you're in front of me and I'm already going over the speed limit then I dunno what your issue is. Maybe don't que if you can't spare 15 mins?

[miraidensetsu]

Let me start by saying that "being elitist" is by no means a bad thing.

Being elitist IS ALWAYS a bad thing. And that's very different from being a elite player. The second is about being a great player, while the first is about being an asshole who thinks himself as an "elite". An elitist doesn't care about the game. He cares about himself, his time, his fun, his parse... He's just another selfish player, but just more vocal about his big "this group owes me" sense.

you wanna be as efficient as possible, because why not right?

Because no one in the party owes anything to anyone? The only thing you can do is play the best way you can, even if that means to carry someone.

I'll never understand why those elitists are always in so much hurry.