Is not using tanking stances actually best?

[Kalise]

It essentially comes down to, if you can be in DPS stance without being excessively squishy (I.e. Being low geared for the content, standing in avoidable damage, not using CD's effectively, DPS not using their debuffs etc) then it's almost universally better to be in DPS stance than Tank stance, given that if you're surviving the content without diverting too much extra attention from the healer, extra survivability from Tank stance does nothing.

However, if you're new to the content, aren't confident in your abilities or that of your healer, or are still gearing up (So you're a bit squishy/and or are having threat troubles vs geared DPS), then Tank stance is a safety net to ensure your survivability, which is the first and foremost concern of any Tank, is to make sure they stay alive to keep the aggro.

Does this reflect poorly on the state of Tanking where in the ideal scenario you actively don't want to use your tanking stance? Sort of, yeah. It will always be an issue so long as defence doesn't scale into making fights finish quicker (And stances remain) unless they do something annoying like make Tank stance a requirement to have even a modicum of threat output...

[MistakeNot]

Your job as a tank is to hold aggro and to stay alive.
Tank stance will help you with both of these tasks.

If you can hold aggro and stay alive in DPS stance, then by all means do so - the extra damage you can deal that way will always be welcome.
If you have trouble holding aggro or trouble staying alive in DPS stance, then you should be in tank stance instead. While doing extra damage is nice, it is not primary duty as a tank.

[udubdave]

It's situational. If you're undergeared and there's no enrage timer, there's nothing wrong with staying in tank stance to learn the fight. If you're comfortable with the fight and know when the damage is coming and when to use CD's, then by all means, switch out of tank stance once you've established initial aggro and pump out that DPS. Tank DPS is very important when it comes to fights that have enrage timers.

For me:
Dungeons - Always in tank stance for trash pulls because I like to pull large. For bosses, I drop tank stance after getting aggro.
Trials/Raids - I only use tank stance if I pull, then drop it after I get aggro.

[Derio]

For me, Trash pulls in dungeons and certain trials I use tank stance. For bosses I drop it shortly after the opener.

You have several defensive cooldowns at your disposal so the 20% makes up for it.

Also you have things like regen, shields, etc.

You have to consider if you are in tank stance and the healer is healing but you are taking little to no damage while in tank stance. You are causing a group dps loss, especially since healers have OGCD healing abilities.

[Hierro]

I mean, I don't really know what more you expect from me. I'm not gonna go and record video evidence of the fact that regens and Benisons are just about enough to cover 95% of situations that the casual playerbase is going to run into.

What I am saying is that you can have your tank and eat it too. I run EXR with a PLD every day that pulls as deep as the walls allow, and goes into Sword Oath for spamming Total Eclipse. Tank defense values, and healer tools are so overpowered for that level of content that the only danger comes from both parties being fully negligent.

It comes down to good cooldown management.

Doesn't Sword Oath only affect autos? I would think turning off Shield Oath and saving a GCD would be just as effective in EXR for large pulls.

[Izsha]

Doesn't Sword Oath only affect autos? I would think turning off Shield Oath and saving a GCD would be just as effective in EXR for large pulls.

It has the flat 20% damage down. If you do stance+4 eclipse, you break even with tank stanced 5 eclips and get some freebie AA damage. But really, thats quite irrelevant. You flash/lob everything for aggro as you pull, then when you arrive at the destination the mobs are still chasing and havent gathered yet. Just use your GCD when it would otherwise be wasted. While sprinting after you tagged the last pack or while they are still gathering.

You dont have to wait for mobs to gangbang you to change stances and waste a gcd at all. Hit button while running. Max DPS at no price.

[Valdegarde]

Since dungeon pulls were brought up as a limiting factor, I'd like to point out that Dark Knight tends to become more effective without their tank stance the more they're able to pull. If a Dark Knight is pressing their buttons fast enough, each additional enemy amounts to more MP and more HP gained. While this is a justification in Dark Knight's favor for dropping tank stance even in pulls, really as mentioned all of the tanks have enough tools to offset a mere 20% more damage intake in most situations.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Since dungeon pulls were brought up as a limiting factor, I'd like to point out that Dark Knight tends to become more effective without their tank stance the more they're able to pull. If a Dark Knight is pressing their buttons fast enough, each additional enemy amounts to more MP and more HP gained. While this is a justification in Dark Knight's favor for dropping tank stance even in pulls, really as mentioned all of the tanks have enough tools to offset a mere 20% more damage intake in most situations.

I'm a Dark Knight Main, and I don't see where you get more MP the more the enemy amount you have on you WITHOUT tank stance. If you are refering to Blood price, you need the tank stance. And for a Pull of trash mobs, who even care about your dps as a Tank ? I feel considerably more confortable in my tank stance for this situation, because sometime heal are really sloppy and 20% Mitigation is really helping the heal and doing large pull can sometimes be tricky following the monster you pull. But I saw every "Meta-player" coming and says, you don't have to keep your tank stance... And.... I will agree, but ONLY on Boss.

And I will says this too. The more you pull, the fatest your health drop, and that's for any tank in any game. So Constant mitigation from Grit and Shield Oath are more than welcome for that.

Btw. Abyssal Drain don't heal as hard as you can imagine even with large pull. Monster generaly hit stronger than your abyssal drain.

[shao32]

I'm a Dark Knight Main, and I don't see where you get more MP the more the enemy amount you have on you WITHOUT tank stance. If you are refering to Blood price, you need the tank stance. And for a Pull of trash mobs, who even care about your dps as a Tank ? I feel considerably more confortable in my tank stance for this situation, because sometime heal are really sloppy and 20% Mitigation is really helping the heal and doing large pull can sometimes be tricky following the monster you pull. But I saw every "Meta-player" coming and says, you don't have to keep your tank stance... And.... I will agree, but ONLY on Boss.

And I will says this too. The more you pull, the fatest your health drop, and that's for any tank in any game. So Constant mitigation from Grit and Shield Oath are more than welcome for that.

Btw. Abyssal Drain don't heal as hard as you can imagine even with large pull. Monster generaly hit stronger than your abyssal drain.

quietus is affected by blood weapon so you double the amount of MP per target hit when you combine those 2, the result is a huge amount of MP gain that can be use to spam abyssal drain alone or with dark arts depens of what you need being sturdy and dealing pretty high dps, more targets more mp gain and more self hears from AD.

[SleepyNeko]

Btw. Abyssal Drain don't heal as hard as you can imagine even with large pull. Monster generaly hit stronger than your abyssal drain.

DA Abyssal Drain with rampart or convalescence with some ogcd heals is enough to cover healing during mass pulls. Especially combined with TBN and Quietus.