Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[HyoMinPark]

Honestly i've found even with diversion as monk still having the offtanks struggle to get hold agro for the second grab.The issue generally arises from the fact that diversion has a quite long cooldown and that the main tank isnt always far enough ahead with agro when he gets caught on the first grab.This results on the offtanks provoke being less effective because it only puts them right above the mt's agro.
Luckily as monk with a bit of vit you can survive the grab anyway but its not always the dps fault here.

Diversion may have a 2 minute cooldown, but it has a 30 second duration of 90% enmity reduction—proper use during an opener or a burst would have prevented a lot of the aggro jumping we’d had. DRG also has a skill that halves enmity every 30 seconds. Sure, you may have to briefly disengage, but proper timing still means very little loss in terms of damage. Far less than you would lose if you died and were raised with 90 seconds of Weakness.

MNK also has an enmity dump in the form of Purification, though I believe its on a longer cooldown than 30 seconds. However, Byakko has enough downtime to weave in both and still lose very little. In the case of this party, it was 100% the DRG at fault, as they used neither save for Elusive Jump one time during a wipe, not during either time we cleared even though they complained about aggro—all the other DPS were actively rotating Diversion, and had never ripped. I was rolling BRD and still never ripped from either tank, despite being on a job notorious for aggro generation—because I was properly rotating both Refresh and Tactician around my bursts and when his aggro would reset (it resets after every State of Shock).

Better to use Diversion than not at all.
And always better to not lie about using it.


While I can acknowledge that PLD has crappy aggro generation, especially snap aggro, the only time WARs or DRKs that know their job should struggle with hate is if they are vastly overgeared by the DPS. Then they may have to go into stance every once in a while. But the only DPS that matched or outgeared the tanks in that party was me. And, again, I didn’t have any problems with hate. But I’m also not lazy enough to not use my enmity tools. Some players just are, and they want the tanks to do the work instead of pressing a single button.

You’re right that sometimes it’s not the DPS’ fault. But, in this situation, it was.

[Mixt]

237 TT cards and counting.

Missing are:
Lava Scorpion (Sohm Al Hard, takes about 23 to 24 minutes to run unsynched solo)
Cecil, Platinum Triad Card (The hardest to get, these things are near impossible to acquire)
Suzaku (Or as my FC calls her, "The Thirsty Bird")

Getting there.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

It really irritates me when DPS whine to the MT about ripping hate, and when the MT tells them to use Diversion they respond with “I am using Diversion”. This happened in a Byakko Ex farm that I joined to help a friend get the mount. I checked my “crystal ball”, and, lo-and-behold, zero uses of Diversion from the DPS that was complaining about aggro (a DRG btw—they also had only 1 cast of Elusive Jump right at the end of the pull where everyone was dead; 0 for both Diversion and Elusive on the one clear we managed).

:thinking:




EDIT because I don’t want to take up another post:

I just got into an argument with someone who claimed that he and all his friends in Elysium agree that Noct AST is better than Di AST.

I’m sorry, but I doubt that any AST main—in Elysium, no doubt—would say that Noct is better than Diurnal. It’s pretty much solidified that Di’s HoTs are far more worth your MP in terms of potency compared to Noct’s shields.

Person also claimed they had a 93 in both DPS and HPS on That Site That Must Not Be Named because “shields allowed me to DPS more”. But, strangely enough, I can’t seem to find anything but green apples on there for him. I wonder which site he’s actually looking at.


Late-night PFs sure are interesting, to say the least.

Byakko is pretty much casual content now. So you're going to get casuals running it who didn't look up their rotation on reddit or who did when SB first came out and not since. I actually learned mine mostly from blog discussions on Lodestone. This thing with Diversion has cropped up recently for more casual players and not everyone is used to it. I still think the idea of the entire party enabling one role is wrong but even I have worked it into my rotation because I finally have my full 390 set for caster and ripping hate is pretty much a guarantee even during lower end stuff nowadays (with a 10+ minute wait, I'm making sure I get thru the duty, role politics aside). Still they should have come clean about it. Either take a stand or adjust. Lying about it just makes you look even worse.

Note about the AST thing: I was told that you get higher crit heals in Noct. By someone who uses reddit as their bible for all things ff. I used to use it exclusively in HW when my heal main was sch but against high end bosses, unless you're with another AST Diurnal is more bang for your buck for sure. Another thing I learned from blog comments lol.

[MariaArvana]

Note about the AST thing: I was told that you get higher crit heals in Noct.

That part can be true - Noct gives a +15% healing potency increase while Diurnal only gives +10%, so base heals are very slightly stronger in Noct if you discard the shields/regen aspects of the stances. Unless they meant higher chance of getting crits, which is false.

But talking about which stance is better on AST is kinda pointless, since the only situation that's really applicable is if you're healing with another AST and you favor one or the other. You'll always want to pick the stance opposite of your co-healer to maximize the healing + mitigation throughput.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

As a healer, I'm starting to feel the pain of other healers while farming Suzaku EX for weapons. I've noticed quite a bit tanks NOT using their defensive cooldowns during the 'Phantom Flurry" tankbuster. It gets worse for the ones that are on DPS stance AND have a vuln stack or two. More often than not, they get knocked out before one of my heals are done casting to heal them.

I ran Shisui last night with some friends and noticed that my friend on Tank's hp was doing a seesaw effect during mobs and such (like suddenly down to half). I checked their gear and they were in a mix of augmented shire or alex ex gear and while they were a dps main, I knew them to be an adequate tank (better than me anyway). It took getting to Ruby Princess before I realized they were running the whole dungeon in dps stance. It was bad enough that we had a short argument because as soon as I'd try to at least apply DoTs (I was WHM) they would be dangerously low, even keeping regen and medica 2 up. One they slipped into Grit their hp stopped dipping so dramatically. It could have been mismanaged CDs (or just sloppiness--I mean usually we're trying to kill each other) but I didn't realize that Grit made that much difference from a damage mitigation standpoint. Or does it? It seemed like it did but we were on the last stretch when they put it on. Anyway I feel a little bit of that pain. I can't even imagine healing pug ex right now (unless its byakko).

[HyoMinPark]

That part can be true - Noct gives a +15% healing potency increase while Diurnal only gives +10%, so base heals are very slightly stronger in Noct if you discard the shields/regen aspects of the stances. Unless they meant higher chance of getting crits, which is false.

But talking about which stance is better on AST is kinda pointless, since the only situation that's really applicable is if you're healing with another AST and you favor one or the other. You'll always want to pick the stance opposite of your co-healer to maximize the healing + mitigation throughput.

Actually, you always go Diurnal sect unless you absolutely need shields to mitigate and live through a mechanic - if you absolutely cannot survive something (like Ion Efflux in o12s, to give an example) without shields because it hits for way more than the party members' HP. However, if you don't need the eHP from shields to survive, regens are always better - in terms of both straight-up potency and mana efficiency. It is true that Noct Aspected Helios is more potent than Succor, and that Noct Aspected Benefic beats non-critlos, but it's still suboptimal outside of solo healing Savage.

I simply go Noct usually with a WHM for the buffer shields give, but Noct certainly isn't needed for things like Extreme primals. And it can be very taxing when people start to repeatedly mess up; more so than Diurnal because you don't have HoTs to rely on to tick up HP.

Byakko is pretty much casual content now. So you're going to get casuals running it who didn't look up their rotation on reddit or who did when SB first came out and not since. I actually learned mine mostly from blog discussions on Lodestone. This thing with Diversion has cropped up recently for more casual players and not everyone is used to it. I still think the idea of the entire party enabling one role is wrong but even I have worked it into my rotation because I finally have my full 390 set for caster and ripping hate is pretty much a guarantee even during lower end stuff nowadays (with a 10+ minute wait, I'm making sure I get thru the duty, role politics aside). Still they should have come clean about it. Either take a stand or adjust. Lying about it just makes you look even worse.

I'm glad you agree that lying about using Diversion was a no bueno on the DRG's party, but, Byakko being relevant or not, there's zero excuse to be level 70 - have multiple level 70s, mind you because they switched off of MNK to go DRG after I made a joke about always being a DRGless BRD - and to go into an extreme primal without knowing what your skills do. Being "casual" doesn't mean you aren't responsible for controlling your own enmity.

This is endgame. Read your tooltips before you go into Extremes. Learn what Diversion is, what it does, and that you need to use it. I don't care if Byakko is no longer the relevant EX.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I simply go Noct usually with a WHM for the buffer shields give, but Noct certainly isn't needed for things like Extreme primals.

For dungeons, I stay in Noct during trash pulls because I can heal the tank during the pull without worrying about enmity, then switch for bosses. And for raids or trials you obviously adjust for your co-healer but even then, don't AST regens and WHM regens stack? In any case I don't know why Noct is suddenly the meta unless theres a spell speed/CD buff that I don't recall. Its been ages since I read those tooltips.

[EaMett]

Adding to this wonderful tale. I love when a BLM pulls aggro and demands I use Butcher's Block combos. When I ask if they used Diversion/Lucid? "I shouldn't have to!!!" It gets better though. They proceeded to not only kick me from the party after their friend got the dog, but join a separate party HyoMin and I made just to clog up spots and make a PF of their own mocking me. All because I dared to tell them to use Lucid. It's comical the length some DPS players will go to be stubbornly obtuse when it comes to using their aggro management tools. Seriously, they are free.

This kind of ignorance/stupid behavior exists in so many forms. As a healer I can often tell that newbie players think I suck as a healer because I let their health go down (nobody is in any imminent danger, hots will get everyone up before the next damage intake, I have ogcds I'm waiting to weave, etc.). I'm obviously dishing out dps during this time. They either jokingly/seriously complain about being scared of their low health, heal in my place if they can or simply don't give commendations at the end. Usually the pattern is: If dps are good enough to do more dps than me overall or really push me for first place, I'll get 2-3 coms. If I'm doing as much dps as both the dps combined, I won't get coms and they are more likely to complain about my healing.

My takeaway from all this is that players who complain about you playing poorly often don't know how to play themselves. I don't know which comes first. Is their habit of always blaming others the reason why they don't know how to play, or is their lack of knowledge the reason they are blaming others?

PS: by low health I mean 30%ish. It's not like I'm flirting withdeath (unless I'm planning on bene).

[Insertcoins]

Super tiger demon ex plus alpha is always top tier.

[HyoMinPark]

For dungeons, I stay in Noct during trash pulls because I can heal the tank during the pull without worrying about enmity, then switch for bosses. And for raids or trials you obviously adjust for your co-healer but even then, don't AST regens and WHM regens stack? In any case I don't know why Noct is suddenly the meta unless theres a spell speed/CD buff that I don't recall. Its been ages since I read those tooltips.

AST enmity isn't an issue, as both sects have passive enmity reduction. If you're talking specifically pre-pull regen aggro, well I can only advise not to do that. HoTs allow for more DPS in my opinion, because the shield will break within seconds, but the HoT from Di Aspected Benefic can offset the auto-attack damage. And yes, AST and WHM regens stack. Only double AST HoTs don't stack (same with double AST shields and AST/SCH shields).

I don't think Noct is considered meta by anyone tbh - certainly not by AST mains unless they're referencing solo healing, in which then you do go Noct in Savage. I enjoy Noct because I like the concept of shields (unfortunately I'm not that great at SCH), but I'm being suboptimal by choosing it even when I'm with a WHM. Honestly, running Diurnal Sect messes with me in Suzaku because I've always opted for Noct when I'm with a WHM or another AST that I catch myself casting shields in preparation to mitigate the AOE or the stack and then I'm like "oops... uh, well you guys have regens early!"

As a healer I can often tell that newbie players think I suck as a healer because I let their health go down (nobody is in any imminent danger, hots will get everyone up before the next damage intake, I have ogcds I'm waiting to weave, etc.). I'm obviously dishing out dps during this time. They either jokingly/seriously complain about being scared of their low health, heal in my place if they can or simply don't give commendations at the end.

PS: by low health I mean 30%ish. It's not like I'm flirting withdeath (unless I'm planning on bene).

I get a lot of co-healers in Extremes that think everyone has to be 100% HP, 100% of the time. I'll set my Earthly Star down ready to heal an AOE, or I'll get CU ready to mitigate and heal up a stack, and my co-healer is always like: INDOM!! or MEDICA II! CURE III! PLENARY INDULGENCE! while my HoTs sit there giving me a 70% overheal and I'm like "...why do I even bother".

It's pleasant when you get a co-healer that lets your HoTs or Star do the work though.