Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[TaiyoShikasu]

So...when's BLM getting it's Death, since Death is a Black Magic spell? :thinking:

This is a query, of course, because Lv5 Death is so critical to BLU's identity, then Death must then be critical to BLM's identity. So come on devs, Death in 5.0 BLM's kit please.

Not true at all, but okay.

[negiman4]

Lol idc i'll just wait it out F the hold back whn blu raise i'll play main stuff thn lets see how thy like tht tht mean i'll solo everything because this is wrong on the devs but i have a feeling its not all of thm but the director has the last say so... Ya i'm looking at you ^,...,^ and again ty blu hater look at pvp you suck because the director / devs don't want you soloing thy want you to stay with team took the fun out of the game if u a Smn you lost pets also u can heal you have to stay close to healers which sometimes let you die even if you stay close so look at the devs / director Team Team Team Team Team die as a Team hmmm thy should revamp the story too and make it the warriors of light and the bringers of light and always so team in cs because this game build for team ya i get it now Tht's why u kick blue mage out also thts why you took Smn pets away etc whats next

I'm not even going to attempt to read that. Learn English please.

Here's the problem with BLU. I'm not opposed to it being "limited". I'm not opposed to it being "solo". I'm not opposed to locking it out of raid content. My big issue with BLU is that THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SOLO CONTENT IN THE GAME TO JUSTIFY BLU'S EXISTENCE AS IS. As it currently stands, the only things you can do with BLU are: kill overworld enemies, use party finder to do SOME basic dungeons, beat masked carnivale. That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU. If they wanted to follow through with this design concept, they need to add FAR more solo content for BLU to participate in. For example, make BLU OP and give them the ability to cover all three roles in a dungeon while restricting party play altogether. Or ffs at least allow it to do the only fun solo content in the game, deep dungeons. If you're going to design BLU as a "solo" class, then you need to go all in. If you try to do everything, you'll achieve nothing. Actually tune BLU to do all content solo and treat it separately from party play. For example, have a world-first limited job race AND a world-first party race for current raid content. Limited jobs could be treated separately from party play and it would be its own thing at the same time as being just as viable and valid as any other job in the game.

TL;DR If you're going to create a solo-oriented job, there needs to be content to justify it.

[Auryan]

I'm not even going to attempt to read that. Learn English please.

Here's the problem with BLU. I'm not opposed to it being "limited". I'm not opposed to it being "solo". I'm not opposed to locking it out of raid content. My big issue with BLU is that THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SOLO CONTENT IN THE GAME TO JUSTIFY BLU'S EXISTENCE AS IS. As it currently stands, the only things you can do with BLU are: kill overworld enemies, use party finder to do SOME basic dungeons, beat masked carnivale. That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU. If they wanted to follow through with this design concept, they need to add FAR more solo content for BLU to participate in. For example, make BLU OP and give them the ability to cover all three roles in a dungeon while restricting party play altogether. Or ffs at least allow it to do the only fun solo content in the game, deep dungeons. If you're going to design BLU as a "solo" class, then you need to go all in. If you try to do everything, you'll achieve nothing. Actually tune BLU to do all content solo and treat it separately from party play. For example, have a world-first limited job race AND a world-first party race for current raid content. Limited jobs could be treated separately from party play and it would be its own thing at the same time as being just as viable and valid as any other job in the game.

TL;DR If you're going to create a solo-oriented job, there needs to be content to justify it.

They designed Mighty Guard to be BLU's own tank stance. It is possible that it has other tanking abilities along with healing- and enhancing magic. It sounds to be a hybrid already. What BLU isn't though is OP, just funny and crazy. Just how I imagine the job.
As for just having the Carnival to do... Well it still has the rest of ARR content to enjoy. I'm planning to see if I can solo dungeons for spell learning, try to solo some extreme primals, set up BLU parties for Coil, and other fun things. This limitation is pretty, uh, limiting, but this will only be the case for its 4.5 introduction. That is likely to change when it reaches 60, 70 (and possibly 80) by 5.whatever.

[Huntrss]

They designed Mighty Guard to be BLU's own tank stance. It is possible that it has other tanking abilities along with healing- and enhancing magic. It sounds to be a hybrid already. What BLU isn't though is OP, just funny and crazy. Just how I imagine the job.
As for just having the Carnival to do... Well it still has the rest of ARR content to enjoy. I'm planning to see if I can solo dungeons for spell learning, try to solo some extreme primals, set up BLU parties for Coil, and other fun things. This limitation is pretty, uh, limiting, but this will only be the case for its 4.5 introduction. That is likely to change when it reaches 60, 70 (and possibly 80) by 5.whatever.

You can't Que up to Solo Dungeons (Blue Mages can't use Duty Finder which as you guess it the ability to go in your Self) ever go unsych that is the only way in for Solo.

[Ceallach]

What's disingenuous is you claiming that people at large asked for Blue as a Limited Job.

All that was asked for was Blue Mage. What we didn't ask for was to roleplay Mr. Jensen as we keep saying we 'didn't ask for this'.

And again this isn't some one or the other situation. All it would have taken was 15 minutes of scrapboarding to come up with an equitable design paradigm to keep the world progression and skill hunting and still fit that into Job Balance. That's it.

That's literally it. There's even multiple RPG games out there that -do that- they could have used as a springboard, but they chose not to.

I personally am disappointed because this is the laziest way they could have gone about it. I personally hope it is enjoyable, but it will forever be tainted by the fact that I can't raid with it, until that changes.

Which is what Feedback can hopefully get them to do, and not playing Uncle !@#%ing Thaumaturge.

FINAL FANTASY XIV is about more than just raiding. We asked for blue mage. We were told it wouldn't be implemented the same way as any other job. We kept asking. Now people like you complain that we're finally getting what we asked for. You do realize that learning spells is part of blue mage's charm, right? I doubt it from how you talk.

Everyone ask for Blue Mage and Yoshi-P said No. Now Yoshi-P found a way to put Blue Mage in and the reply is No instead of joy. They have said it will be going up to level 60 but I don't expect level 70 until all other Jobs are 80. this isn't going to be Current at all because then it some how break the game? Blue Mage is for old content like AAR and soon Heavensward and having fun in that. This is a Job you put away when your done not one you carry until the end of the game.

Exactly.

Let me know when I started. Nowhere in my post did I attack you the arguer instead of your argument--rather the opposite, I said your argument was fallacious. Let me know when you're ready to debate in good faith.

But you didn't explain your reasoning. You just spoke of dichotomies. Also, considering your other posts in this thread (like how black mage should get Death), I don't think you even understand blue mage well enough to debate well.

We were told that's how Yoshi P was thinking he would add it. Same as how he though 2.0 SMN was a good idea. How he though bow mage was a good idea. Personally, I was fine with ARR SMN and liked bow mage but many people were not.

Most of us that kept asking for BLU regardless of how he thought it could work were saying it didn't have to be a solo job. Some of us gave ideas of how it could have worked. There were some people that wanted BLU but didn't think it would be added due to how would spell learning work and could the game handle learning a large amount of spells. Some wanted BLU but didn't want it to be put into a single role so said they would rather not see it. Then there were some that didn't want to see BLU take up a future job slot and wanted something else instead. It's disingenuous to say the majority that were asking for BLU wanted a job that is separated from large parts of the game.

Well, if you think you can do a better job than Yoshi-P, feel free to make your own game. What I said was that we asked for blue mage (fact), we were told it wouldn't be implemented the same way as any other job (fact), and we kept asking for it even with all the speculation and opinions you brought up (fact). It's disingenuous to say I think people asked for a job "separated from most of the game's content" when you don't speak for the entire population of the game. For many, "most of the game's content" is housing, glamour, crafting, and gathering. Also, this game's population's percentage of hardcore raiders is actually quite low.

I would say the way you presented your points was pretty toxic. You used very extreme dichotomies that were pretty absurd and then went after the OP a bit at the end of your post. The OP didn't go after anyone in the forums with their post.

I think it's toxic of the community as a whole to be this hypocritical. We asked for blue mage. We were warned it probably wouldn't fit in the game's systems as they were. We kept asking. Now we have it, and people are mad instead of glad. To me, that's just downright stupid.

Are you implying those of us that want to play as the job we waited years for in the content we choose are lacking a moral compass?

See above.

There are two spells there as examples and it was the two you you used as examples in your post.

To refer back to the interview with Yoshi-P that was linked earlier in this thread, the charm of blue mage is learning your spells, and being held back from dungeons and raids because you don't know the right spells, and then having a BLU-only meta after that is pretty bad. I was trying to get to that same point, but I guess people on this site find thinking difficult.

I understood that you were questioning why bring a BLU into dungeons and again it comes down to choice. Why bring a NIN or BRD or SMN into dungeons? People chose to play as those jobs. It's that simple.

Then what do you have against people who want to play blue mage?

We are getting level 5 Death once BLU is raised to 60 cap but there hasn't been concrete info yet on the spell besides this article this other poster read. No idea if it's legit or not.

It sounds like it is from that interview.

You can still play Dragoon and the Monk if you wanted in the content of your choice. I meant that every job should be for everyone instead of a job for solo people, a job for raiders, a job for pvpers, etc.

Blue mage is a job for everyone. The truth doesn't stop being true based on one's beliefs.

When did they attack you instead of how you were presenting your argument?

See above.

I don't get why people keep saying BLU was more capable of things on XI than it really was. It was a pretty strong DD and the self SC and MB that was possible every few minutes and then Cannonball or breath nukes at 75. It could tank and heal decently but RDM was far better at soloing. At 99 BLU can tank and heal a bit better now but still not as good as the jobs actually meant for those roles.

It's because of the level of combinations you could pull off, considering you had nearly two hundred spells and the job traits that resulted from setting combinations of spells. Blue mage could do literally anything, and the fact another job was "better" at that doesn't matter when you're Jevil with a sword or two.

Many of us that wanted to main BLU in all content find this unacceptable. That doesn't mean we are against the solo content.

What I find most unacceptable is the overall hypocritical attitude of the community. Solo content is still content, and if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't hate on people who enjoy it.

Yeah I really want a caster tank after seeing how well they could work on Old Republic. They could make BLU fit into any role and did look like there was work to make it be the first multi-role job.

I'll be fair here, as I haven't played that game (I'm not a big fan of Star Wars to start with) and say I wouldn't mind a magic tank either, and we have that in blue mage thanks to Mighty Guard. Sure, you can't use it in Alphascape right away, but that's fine because the devs are rightfully worried about job balance, something you're neglecting in your arguments. Job balance was one of the greatest failings of FINAL FANTASY XI, in fact.

Callach your wrong this blue mage nothing like FF11 also thy wasn't block from content and held back from joining other jobs.also blue mage wasn't Op from wat i seen in FF 11 every job was hitting really hard but ppl always try to point a finger at the most fun jobs because thy really don't like it. but thy will hide there true words just trying not to upset ppl i know this because i played FF11 and there was ALOT of haters on there because elite blue mage players could solo elite RDM could solo etc but thy always hated blue mage players more its so funny i wish i had posted it on youtube

Really?

FINAL FANTASY XI's blue mage had to see a move go off to possibly learn it. Blue mage could fill any role on a party by setting combinations of blue magic spells for job traits in addition to what the spells themselves did. Blue mage was great in any role and with any type of damage. To be able to do everything blue mage could do as a player without leveling blue mage, you had to level and gear multiple jobs.

FINAL FANTASY XIV's blue mage has to see a move go off to possibly learn it. Blue mage can fill any role on a party by setting combinations of blue magic spells for what they do, including stances to help fit the role. Blue mage will be fine in any role because we don't have to worry about the type or element of damage we deal. To be able to do everything a blue mage can do as a player without leveling blue mage, you have to level and gear multiple jobs.

They look the same to me. The only reason blue mage in FINAL FANTASY XIV will be fine is because it's a Limited Job. Otherwise, job balance would immediately be borked.

Ya know...you guys ought to check the recent interview on Reddit. Yoshida explicitly explains why BLU couldn't be in XIV at first.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

Here's an excerpt from the interview that I believe is important, quoted from Yoshida himself:

"If we were to implement BLU as a normal job, there would be restrictions like "I can't raid until i learn all my new moves" or "I can't go to dungeons because i haven't learned those AoEs". You might think "I'm fine with that" at first, but you have to do that for every expansion. Everyone else is farming while you are learning to get to the startline, and it ends up being just annoying. Then what happens? The world fist teams won't use BLU. That doesn't mean we can just let BLUs have magic with extremely tilted synergies, because then BLU just becomes mandatory. If we are put in that situation where BLU has to be treated as a normal job, you won't be able to play BLU the way it's supposed to be fun."

This explanation tells us quite a bit about why BLU can't be brought into the raid scene. Let alone, there's more in the interview saying how difficult it could be to balance given it's a multi-purpose job. I'd recommend reading it so as to get an understanding as to Yoshida and the dev team's perspective on why they created a "limited job".

THANK YOU!

[Seraphor]

I'm not even going to attempt to read that. Learn English please.

Here's the problem with BLU. I'm not opposed to it being "limited". I'm not opposed to it being "solo". I'm not opposed to locking it out of raid content. My big issue with BLU is that THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SOLO CONTENT IN THE GAME TO JUSTIFY BLU'S EXISTENCE AS IS. As it currently stands, the only things you can do with BLU are: kill overworld enemies, use party finder to do SOME basic dungeons, beat masked carnivale. That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU. If they wanted to follow through with this design concept, they need to add FAR more solo content for BLU to participate in. For example, make BLU OP and give them the ability to cover all three roles in a dungeon while restricting party play altogether. Or ffs at least allow it to do the only fun solo content in the game, deep dungeons. If you're going to design BLU as a "solo" class, then you need to go all in. If you try to do everything, you'll achieve nothing. Actually tune BLU to do all content solo and treat it separately from party play. For example, have a world-first limited job race AND a world-first party race for current raid content. Limited jobs could be treated separately from party play and it would be its own thing at the same time as being just as viable and valid as any other job in the game.

TL;DR If you're going to create a solo-oriented job, there needs to be content to justify it.

You've completely missed the point.
There's currently not much solo content because there's no job capable of soloing it all. Blue Mage is what makes all content solo content.

[negiman4]

You've completely missed the point.
There's currently not much solo content because there's no job capable of soloing it all. Blue Mage is what makes all content solo content.

Are you dense? This is an MMORPG, it's designed for multiplayer. Of course it doesn't have much solo content. Which is why BLU as it is now is a stupid idea. You might have your own idea of how BLU will play, but it sounds to me like in order to solo something that was originally designed for a party, you need to overlevel and unsync yourself in order to be able to do that, so forget soloing level 50 dungeons as BLU until the level cap raises. The fact that in order to do a dungeon relative to your own level, you have to put together your own party to stand a chance is stupid. BLU should be specifically tailored to be anti-party if they're going to design it this way. The way it's being implemented, it doesn't magically make anything soloable, because that's not how BLU was designed, because in order to do things that were designed for parties, you have to make a party, which is counter-intuitive to BLU's entire design philosophy.

My point is: either go all in and make BLU completely solo-oriented, or brute force it into the tank/dps/healer paradigm. You can't have both.

[Arkdra]

That's it. That's not bad game design, that's TERRIBLE game design. Once you beat the masked carnivale, there's absolutely no reason to continue playing BLU.

This particular line is utterly asinine. I leveled ast to 70 and haven't touched it since so clearly it was a waste of time. I haven't summoned my chocobo since I leveled through the sb msq over a year ago so chocobo companions were clearly a waste of dev resources. Haven't touched any of the deltascapes once I finished my glam sets, time to delete raids.

It is ok for content to have a finite lifespan. We don't even know if this is the case yet for blu but even if they completely abandoned it after this patch cycle, that would still be fine. It would just have been another side thing to do.

You also have no idea what blu is like in game. All they've showed off is like 8 skills out of 49 and of those we've only got numbers attached to 4 of them. For all you know maybe they can reasonably solo dungeons without egregiously oulevelling them.

Probably not, but maybe!

[Huntrss]

Blue Mages are suppost to be more powerful but we have to wait an see. As for Soloing Dungeons Blue Mage can only use Party Finder and as far as we know can't use Duty Finder. So how are they suppost to Que up for Soloing Dungeons.

[Dualgunner]

Not true at all, but okay.

What's not true? That Death isn't a defining spell of Black Magic? It was a Black Mage spell in the very first Final Fantasy, so if that's not iconic to the job, why is Lv5 Death iconic to BLU?