Are Blizzard II, and Freeze useful at all?

[ManuelBravo]

This isn't a realistic scenario in a party. If mobs are going after a healer, the healer should stand next to the tank so the tank can Flash/equivalent it off. DDs, BLMs especially, should be AoEing, which will break bind and sleep. Bind and sleep are not useful in a complete party, and any competent DD knows that spending GCDs on bind and sleep is just unnecessarily prolonging a run. If the tank or healer disconnects, fine, use CC so you can still kill things while they reconnect. But if everyone's there, every GCD should be a spent on a death spell.

Lets take your example, and use a scenario such as Eureka were mindless fools depends on others for survival by bring mobs that get caught up on aoe spells that BLM's / SUM / RDM / WHM are casting, not aware of their surroundings and do to their lack of common sense instead of running to have them reset enmity and expect others to clear them. Here is a perfect example where a BLM who has gathered enmity can use bind to get some lead way or save people who are being chased. Prepping mobs is another good example for unexpected pops and Elemental sprites. Blizzard II or Freeze can buy some time. So claiming not being a realistic scenario is false. A veteran healer can be expected to follow that rule, however kind of useless when people panic and run to tank while aoe is going off and are dead center or tank is not putting attention to their surroundings.

As for Death spell, it's great if it's not on CD, however on average can take up to 4-10 mobs to be back up depending on mob level and speed it's being killed averaging mobs levels 45-55. in Eureka.


Another example is when your doing activities such PotD or HoH. BLM is very useful using their support skills to buy time. Either on group or solo.

No offense you make a good point, however lets face reality unless you know your group members personally and all are on the same page random players can be somewhat lacking in the sharpness department. No offense to anyone.

Once again, no one likes being told how to play, however judging an action/spell without understanding it or giving a logic example of how it useless or unwilling to keep an open mind is just plain ignorance.

[Tlachtga]

Sigh apparently you missed the whole point. Blizzard two and Freeze are NOT meant to be DMG out put

And therefore they are useless.

they are meant as support spells to help BLM stay alive by binding mobs. when certain situations occur where sleep may be resisted or failing. Depending on how well you use spells they can help the party last longer.

Or you can stay alive by just killing the enemy before it kills you instead of dicking around with CC. This isn't that kind of game at all.

There are three types of BLM's

There's two types of Black Mages in this world. Those that are good at their job and those that aren't.

Everyone is free to play any style they like

To a point. A BLM not bringing high damage is useless.

Ironic that intelligence is a must for a BLM when many players lack common sense. By all means this is NOT meant to insult or attack anyone, it is proof to point out that many BLM's are dead on the field do to lack of knowledge and understanding of their support spells.

You're playing the wrong job if you want to "support" as a BLM. Funny how you speak about people lacking intelligence...

NOTE; Aoe Thunders is a nice dot for mobs, however your missing the whole point about Blizzard II and Freeze. LEARN TO READ AND TOUCH UP ON YOUR COMPREHENSION SKILLS. IF this is misleading information back up your statement on how this is misleading information by actual facts or logical examples, not empty arguments that have nothing to do with the fact that a statement was made that Blizzard II and Freeze are NOT meant for dmg, yet emphasize your argument and compare them to dmg.

I know how to read.

It's misleading because you're trying to justify a piss-poor inferior playstyle when you should just attempt to deal as much damage as possible.

Freeze is 100 potency. Blizzard II is 50 potency. Both are trash. The CC effects might as well not exist, because how limited their applications are. If CC is needed (basically never) other roles are better at bringing it. Tanks can stun and silence, as well as physical ranged, and most importantly, they don't cuck their damage doing so. Physical ranged can also Bind, and again, it doesn't cost them anything. Even WHM can Sleep stuff with Repose.

If they're not meant for damage, there's no point in using them. The whole point of BLM is to bring high damage and basically nothing else. That's the justification for them being the only caster without a raise. The few support abilities they bring via role actions are better performed by SMN in both cases (Apoc and Mana Shift) due to how the job plays.

If you want to dick around and spam Sleep and Blizzard II and pretend you're helping, fine. You do you. But don't pretend it's not dumb.

[Kabooa]

Once again, no one likes being told how to play, however judging an action/spell without understanding it or giving a logic example of how it useless or unwilling to keep an open mind is just plain ignorance.

Yet you maintain the spells are useful.

having a use =/= being useful.

They aren't on my bar, and they will likely never return to my bar, without a drastic paradigm shift in FF14's encounter and monster design.

[Maero]

I mean there was a very small period in HW in that freeze was good in your rotation, it really has limited use and is it worth even being on your hotbar? Probably not

[ManuelBravo]

And therefore they are useless.



Or you can stay alive by just killing the enemy before it kills you instead of dicking around with CC. This isn't that kind of game at all.




There's two types of Black Mages in this world. Those that are good at their job and those that aren't.



To a point. A BLM not bringing high damage is useless.



You're playing the wrong job if you want to "support" as a BLM. Funny how you speak about people lacking intelligence...



I know how to read.

It's misleading because you're trying to justify a piss-poor inferior playstyle when you should just attempt to deal as much damage as possible.

Freeze is 100 potency. Blizzard II is 50 potency. Both are trash. The CC effects might as well not exist, because how limited their applications are. If CC is needed (basically never) other roles are better at bringing it. Tanks can stun and silence, as well as physical ranged, and most importantly, they don't cuck their damage doing so. Physical ranged can also Bind, and again, it doesn't cost them anything. Even WHM can Sleep stuff with Repose.

If they're not meant for damage, there's no point in using them. The whole point of BLM is to bring high damage and basically nothing else. That's the justification for them being the only caster without a raise. The few support abilities they bring via role actions are better performed by SMN in both cases (Apoc and Mana Shift) due to how the job plays.

If you want to dick around and spam Sleep and Blizzard II and pretend you're helping, fine. You do you. But don't pretend it's not dumb.

You do realize that I did mention everyone is free to play the way they want. and ONCE AGAIN I mentioned that these are used to help keep BLM alive in certain situations. I've played BLM enough to know that a dead BLM is useless. Arguing with people who seem to misunderstand the simple context. The main priority of a BLM is to deal DMG, a wise BLM knows how to stay alive. While a dead BLM means zero DMG out put. To each their own and take it as a grain of sand. It's that simple. I'm not forcing my perspective on anyone and again it's a perspective that is based on logic and experience. To each their own. as for support once again learn how to read and comprehend. By support I mean to primary help support BLM chances of survival. As much a sI would love to go on endless chatter it's pointless to debate any further with someone who lacks simple comparison of situations and has zero understanding what bind even means.

[Tint]

Lets take your example, and use a scenario such as Eureka were mindless fools depends on others for survival by bring mobs that get caught up on aoe spells that BLM's / SUM / RDM / WHM are casting, not aware of their surroundings and do to their lack of common sense instead of running to have them reset enmity and expect others to clear them. Here is a perfect example where a BLM who has gathered enmity can use bind to get some lead way or save people who are being chased. Prepping mobs is another good example for unexpected pops and Elemental sprites. Blizzard II or Freeze can buy some time. So claiming not being a realistic scenario is false. A veteran healer can be expected to follow that rule, however kind of useless when people panic and run to tank while aoe is going off and are dead center or tank is not putting attention to their surroundings.

Well, you should NEVER use aoe spells in Eureka in the first place, if you want to survive. And I will of course not use any kind of crowd control to save some randoms who mindlessly pulled enmity: It will just put me in the enmity list, wich means I will die or have to run a mile to reset them with the risk of pulling even more stuff...

If you pull enmity just die and get raised. Everything else will just lead to mobs who will never reset and running ramaprt through the groups.

No offense you make a good point, however lets face reality unless you know your group members personally and all are on the same page random players can be somewhat lacking in the sharpness department. No offense to anyone.

Yeah and that's also a reason why crowd control doesn't work: Whenever I tried to use Sleep when our tank died in Eureka people just kept attacking, even after the 4th time with announcement... Bind will also fall off when you keep attacking.

That's also true when your healer dies in a dungeon. You use aoe bind and then? Everyone stops attacking and the tank is moving away from the mobs so he doesn't get hit anymore while the healer returned to starting point and is now running back to the group? I don't think so... Just wipe and try again.


However, Sleep was really nice to run from A to B in Eureka without getting killed. But in an actual fighting situation? Not so much.

[ManuelBravo]

It's pretty easy to tell. A good black mage tells you that it has a use that ultimately is worthless in the current state of the game.

A bad black mage tells you that blizzard 2 and freeze are good.

A good player or even a decent player keeps their mind open to advice, while a poor player thinks they know it all. A fool rushes into an argument with no facts or examples, while a knowledgeable person is able to back up their argument. If he is proven wrong he would apologize, thank a person for the clarification, and move on. IF a person goes with majority just to agree, has no evidence it to back it and only gives the impression that the world is already dumb enough and people should really stop adding to it.

As a mentor I keep an open mind, and patience is a virtue. Your welcome to your style, not arguing your perspective at all. Only gave advice on a way to survive by using their own spells that are useful at certain times. If keeping an open mind, and able to explain certain situations, that makes sense, labels me as a terrible BLM, than I rather be a terrible BLM than an ignorant one.

Key phrase to remember; The world is already dumb enough, lets not add to it.

[ManuelBravo]

Well, you should NEVER use aoe spells in Eureka in the first place, if you want to survive. And I will of course not use any kind of crowd control to save some randoms who mindlessly pulled enmity: It will just put me in the enmity list, wich means I will die or have to run a mile to reset them with the risk of pulling even more stuff...

Correct this a very valid point, however lets say your doing a YY or Skoll Prep party, lets face some people are terrible at keeping an eye out for re spawns. This is a situation where sleep works or if being resisted works pretty well. Solo N bunny fates, being most are ignored or low members really helps out buying time as well. Being both get resisted you can alternate and help give time so that the mobs can reset resistance.

Your second point there is a major key word. YOU. many players in eureka really avoid common sense so depending on group or who is being targeted it comes in handy to have that option.

In terms of crowd control I worry more about my self and team mates to buy the them some time and avoid getting killed. I normally form groups and give that hint so extremely rare we have any deaths. Ever since the first section of Eureka these option have been very good to me based on experience.

If you pull enmity just die and get raised. Everything else will just lead to mobs who will never reset and running ramaprt through the groups.



Yeah and that's also a reason why crowd control doesn't work: Whenever I tried to use Sleep when our tank died in Eureka people just kept attacking, even after the 4th time with announcement... Bind will also fall off when you keep attacking.

That's also true when your healer dies in a dungeon. You use aoe bind and then? Everyone stops attacking and the tank is moving away from the mobs so he doesn't get hit anymore while the healer returned to starting point and is now running back to the group? I don't think so... Just wipe and try again.


However, Sleep was really nice to run from A to B in Eureka without getting killed. But in an actual fighting situation? Not so much.

Your right and make very good points. However it comes down on how much time you want to waste and how fast healers can recover. Sleep and bind just buys some time for them. I've gotten plenty of complements by using this technique to prevent wipes. Yes I could just let everyone die and say eff it like everyone else. Guess I just focus on the word team , not the word I . Rather than constantly see people drop like flies, it does not hurt to help out. I respect your perspective and you do make very points on what the majority of BLM's think that show experience with Eureka.

[Kabooa]

Key phrase to remember; The world is already dumb enough, lets not add to it.

*holds up a mirror*

Your argument is that blizzard 2 and freeze are useful for living.

Anything that Blizzard 2 or Freeze works on, Sleep does. The superior CC option -that is still in a corner collecting dust-. It doesn't require it to be next to you, it doesn't require a ground target, and it is way better for living because it stops all action, where as stopping to cast blizzard 2 and Freeze can still leave you in melee range to take another hit.

If you want damage, you don't use them. If you want crowd control, you don't use them.

[Tlachtga]

You do realize that I did mention everyone is free to play the way they want. and ONCE AGAIN I mentioned that these are used to help keep BLM alive in certain situations. I've played BLM enough to know that a dead BLM is useless. Arguing with people who seem to misunderstand the simple context. The main priority of a BLM is to deal DMG, a wise BLM knows how to stay alive. While a dead BLM means zero DMG out put. To each their own and take it as a grain of sand. It's that simple. I'm not forcing my perspective on anyone and again it's a perspective that is based on logic and experience. To each their own. as for support once again learn how to read and comprehend. By support I mean to primary help support BLM chances of survival. As much a sI would love to go on endless chatter it's pointless to debate any further with someone who lacks simple comparison of situations and has zero understanding what bind even means.

Again, BLM should just focus on dealing as much damage as possible.

You making up scenarios where Blizzard II or Freeze have a use doesn't make them useful.

Also stop with the veiled insults.

A good player or even a decent player keeps their mind open to advice, while a poor player thinks they know it all. A fool rushes into an argument with no facts or examples, while a knowledgeable person is able to back up their argument. If he is proven wrong he would apologize, thank a person for the clarification, and move on. IF a person goes with majority just to agree, has no evidence it to back it and only gives the impression that the world is already dumb enough and people should really stop adding to it.

I'm always open to advice from better players.

I already backed up my argument. The potency of Freeze and Blizzard II is 100 and 50 respectively. That's trash.

As a mentor

lol

I keep an open mind, and patience is a virtue. Your welcome to your style, not arguing your perspective at all. Only gave advice on a way to survive by using their own spells that are useful at certain times. If keeping an open mind, and able to explain certain situations, that makes sense, labels me as a terrible BLM, than I rather be a terrible BLM than an ignorant one.

Er, okay. Still doesn't change the fact that Blizzard II and Freeze are obsolete. Even Fire II is obsolete now, outside of extremely unrealistic situations.

Key phrase to remember; The world is already dumb enough, lets not add to it.

Take your own advice.