Housing: Purchase Timer - Alternative Idea

[AriesMouse]

A lot of people don't want to or are unable to do placard spamming. However entering a lottery is near zero effort. This means that on highly populated servers the competition would drastically spike upwards due to the sheer ease of competing for a plot.

And as I already said in another similar thread, players with multiple accounts or groups of people who want to share a house will have a higher chance of winning with a lottery system.

The current system needs serious improvement but expanding the influence of rng is not the way to do it. We need more houses. Not more dice rolls.

I agree we need more houses. Ideally instanced housing.

But I feel like a lottery system could be a much better choice than what is going on now. People say there will be more competition, which while true, isn't completely a bad thing. Rather than begrudging people for also getting a fair shot, maybe be happy that people with jobs/families/not a lot of time now have a fair shot at getting a plot. Not everyone has the luxury of having 20hours to kill at a placard. Housing shouldn't only be for people with excess free time to kill. Also, there is something to be said about the fact that people should probably be actively playing the game, not just sitting at a placard spamming buy, or using a bot.

There are some very simple things that could be put into place to make things balanced out:

• Check the account history. If that account has never owned a home/never been FC leader(and owned a house through those means), they get a boost/bonus in the lottery.
• Losing out on a lottery gives a bonus if you're applying for a plot in the same housing area (So if you're sticking to only the Shirogane, you'll get a bonus to getting a house there, while others apply to all housing areas will not).
• Put bonus buff on people the more times they apply. So someone that keeps missing out will eventually have a higher chance of winning if they hit up every house they can when they are not already locked into a lottery, while people that maybe only poke at it once in a while will be lower on the list.
• Give FCs with a player count of 10 or more a priority bonus.
• If someone relocates to the plot you have your money on, maybe bring up a window asking if you want to place your money down for the plot they left (if it is a house of the same size). Apply a bonus if they apply to that plot rather than a new one.
• Place a veteran buff on long time players that are first time buyers to up their chances.
• When someone applies for the lottery, give them a warning ahead of time that shows how many other people have applied. Possibly show (anonymously) how many people with bonuses are on that plot, and what bonuses you as a player might have. This could encourage people to pick and chose more carefully, if there are multiple plots to pick from, so people will divide themselves up more evenly.

Mind you, these bonuses and the like would apply in a fashion very similar to trying to get a HQ craft. Just because the number goes up doesn't mean you are 100% going to get what you're after, unless the number itself says 100% (which personally I don't think should be achievable for this system. 50% would be a good cut off I think)

[Penthea]

I agree we need more houses. Ideally instanced housing.

But I feel like a lottery system could be a much better choice than what is going on now. People say there will be more competition, which while true, isn't completely a bad thing. Rather than begrudging people for also getting a fair shot

Lottery is not fair. People complain all the time about not winning loot despite killing the boss so many times, and losing it to people who killed it once. You'll end up with people who were trying to get a house for a long time losing to a new player, and then going mad over it. Even with bonuses that possibility exists.

The other side of bonuses is they would be extremely demoralising to a new player. The housing situation is depressing enough as it is without a system that has a form of favouritism that punishes new players for simply being new.

The fc member bonus could be abused. Players could invite alts or pay people to join their fc to increase their chances of getting a house.

Lottery would favour those with several accounts. Yes you can get several accounts to bot spam the placard now, but that is against the terms of use, so it comes with its own risks and that can discourage players from doing it. With the lottery system there would be no need for bots so players could use several accounts to target the same house without breaking the terms of use. They would have nothing to lose by pooling their resources.

Not everyone has the luxury of having 20hours to kill at a placard. Housing shouldn't only be for people with excess free time to kill. Also, there is something to be said about the fact that people should probably be actively playing the game, not just sitting at a placard spamming buy, or using a bot.

The placard spam is bloody awful. I completely agree. But all that lottery will do is eliminate placard spam. It does not even remotely fix the actual problem which is housing availability, and it would introduce new problems of its own. We need more houses or a different housing system. Not rng that is riddled with intended and unintended favouritism.

[Ittapupu_Berry]

The placard spam is bloody awful. I completely agree. But all that lottery will do is eliminate placard spam. It does not even remotely fix the actual problem which is housing availability, and it would introduce new problems of its own. We need more houses or a different housing system. Not rng that is riddled with intended and unintended favouritism.

Well we could have a broken system that allows people (who don't have 20 hours to spare) to get a house, or a system that only allows people capable of all-nighters to have one. I believe that bonuses to players should be looked over and approved by the game devs before implemented but the idea of a lotto vs current system is just picking your poison. I'd like the poison that gives more people a chance and allows players to play the game while house hunting.
Side note:we need more homes, we really do and that should be something to definitely hope for but in the mean time... improving (not necessarily fixing) a broken system would be positive

[Penthea]

Well we could have a broken system that allows people (who don't have 20 hours to spare) to get a house, or a system that only allows people capable of all-nighters to have one.

They're both horribly broken systems. In my eyes neither are good enough.

I believe that bonuses to players should be looked over and approved by the game devs before implemented but the idea of a lotto vs current system is just picking your poison. I'd like the poison that gives more people a chance and allows players to play the game while house hunting.

The end result is basically the same. It only changes who gets a house. Not how many people have access to housing. Lottery is not a solution. It's swapping one awful system with another.

Side note:we need more homes, we really do and that should be something to definitely hope for but in the mean time... improving (not necessarily fixing) a broken system would be positive

Sorry but I fail to see how a system that intentionally employs such blatant favouritism can be seen as better. I was a pretty new player when I started aiming for a house. Had the lottery system been in at the time I likely would have quit. The odds would have been crazily stacked against me. I wouldn't want to play a game that punishes new players for simply being new players.

More houses, vastly expanded improvement on apartments that give them more space and the ability to garden properly, a form of proper instanced housing...stuff like this and similar would mitigate the rng of getting a house. Lottery would not.

[AriesMouse]

Sorry but I fail to see how a system that intentionally employs such blatant favouritism can be seen as better.

The things above were a suggestion, and one of them was a bonus for "first time buyers" meaning, new players. How is there blatant favoritism at all, when those were a few options for potential bonuses that could be applied to literally anyone, new player, or veteran. Rather that balking at the idea and pushing it off the table, why not make a suggestion for how it can be tweaked, improved, etc?

The way the system is now is basically a lottery anyways, making it an actual lottery just removes people botting, and gives more players a chance at a house. It would be a better system on those grounds alone.

[Penthea]

The things above were a suggestion, and one of them was a bonus for "first time buyers" meaning, new players. How is there blatant favoritism at all, when those were a few options for potential bonuses that could be applied to literally anyone, new player, or veteran. Rather that balking at the idea and pushing it off the table, why not make a suggestion for how it can be tweaked, improved, etc?

My suggestion was at the end of my post.

I think a lottery system would be awful so my suggestion to improve it would be to have none at all. As for the favouritism maybe have a look at the bonuses you posted yourself. They appear to be designed to increase the odds of players with specific circumstances.

While placards do favour certain types of players, they were not designed with the intention of doing so. Your suggested bonuses would be designed with that intention.

The way the system is now is basically a lottery anyways

Yes it is, which is why replacing it with another lottery is not a solution.

making it an actual lottery just removes people botting, and gives more players a chance at a house. It would be a better system on those grounds alone.

It would vastly increase the competition on plots on highly populated servers. It would only improve the chances for players who have never engaged in placard spam. Those who did engage in placard spam would actually have a smaller chance because the amount of competition would increase due to the ease of entering a lottery. The odds of winning on the likes of Balmung would be insanely low. It's a very old server filled with veterans who never had a house.

I am not advocating for placard spam, I think it's horrendous. I think it's a disgrace that this is what a lot of people have to do to even have a chance to get a house. However I think the lottery idea would be equally disgraceful. I absolutely do not support any form of rng when it comes to housing.

[Ittapupu_Berry]

Sorry but I fail to see how a system that intentionally employs such blatant favouritism can be seen as better.

You're referring to AriesMouse's suggestions right? I'm sure they were only suggesting specifics to make the overall idea a bit more fleshed out. I agree that some of them have more favoritism than I'd like, but if you dislike favoritism shouldn't you be turning down his suggestions rather than the overall idea? There doesn't have to be favoritism in a lottery.

Not trying to attack you or anything, just curious as to why you think possible suggestions you don't like about this idea warrant disapproving the idea?

[Elamys]

I have friends that already refuse to join me in this game because they want a house but it's difficult to get one and they don't have the patience or energy to spam a placard.

I'm not sure how buffs to favor certain players would make them any more likely to play. Especially if they don't meet whatever the requirements are, which are most likely to be "how long have you been trying to get a house?" because the intention of the buffs is to assist players who have been trying and failing to win at the lottery.

[AriesMouse]

As for the favouritism maybe have a look at the bonuses you posted yourself. They appear to be designed to increase the odds of players with specific circumstances.

Again, these were just a few possible suggestions. There are dozens of options that could balance things out in either direction, so the favoritism argument doesn't really get much traction, since realistically, it could go either way depending on what sort of system was put in, and what sort of bonuses were put into place, since the ones I listed are not the only options.

Using a server like Balmung is never really a good point of reference. That server, and Mateus to a degree, are exceptions to the rule, not examples of it. We can not base the entire housing system and how it works on one, maybe two servers.

My point here is, if they are going to insist on keeping the rng aspect, keep the timer and everything, they should just make it a lottery, rather than leave the system as is with the placard spam. If we have to have the time, have to have the rng, at least make the rng truly fair, and something that is inclusive for all that qualify by the rules to purchase a house. A lottery system could be made to benefit people rather than the current system that just screws people over endlessly. Hell, it could even be made so that if a certain number of people apply for a plot via lottery, that the plot is then locked and people can not relocate to it. That could cut some of the headache and heartache out for a lot of people.

[Penthea]

You're referring to AriesMouse's suggestions right? I'm sure they were only suggesting specifics to make the overall idea a bit more fleshed out. I agree that some of them have more favoritism than I'd like, but if you dislike favoritism shouldn't you be turning down his suggestions rather than the overall idea? There doesn't have to be favoritism in a lottery.

I dislike the favouritism they suggested and I dislike the idea of a lottery. I am intentionally turning down both.

Not trying to attack you or anything, just curious as to why you think possible suggestions you don't like about this idea warrant disapproving the idea?

Have you not read my posts? I have already said why I dislike lottery. In fact I said so quite a few times today in this thread and in another very similar one you made. At this point I have already repeated myself on this subject in two threads where you are active.

You can't use lottery to fix a problem which is already essentially lottery. The suggestion OP made would merely reduce the amount of effort needed to participate in rng. It will not fix rng. The ease of participation would make the competition for plots on highly populated servers be nuts. It's already freaking crazy whenever new wards are introduced. If you're on a highly populated server then advocating for lottery is shooting yourself in the foot.

To repeat myself from your thread:

More wards, different ward designs that allow any size house to be built on a plot, apartment expansion for more space and proper gardening (why don't we have balconies? ><), allowing fcs to use apartments, adding more tenant slots to private homes, adding tenant slots to apartments...all of these and more would reduce the problems of placard spam. Increasing accessibility to housing is how to combat it. Not by replacing one form of rng with another.

A huge reason why placard spam is a problem is because of the extreme shortage of housing. If you're not fussy about size and location placard spam is merely a mild annoyance most of the time on my server because the population isn't so bloated that all the wards are constantly full. I just counted over 30 unclaimed plots in the Goblet. Shirogane is the only residential district that is full. The placard locking people out of purchase is usually only a delay rather than a road block filled with stress and competition from spam clicking. Housing shortage is what makes placard spam so bloody awful. Therefore tackling the shortage is the most logical way to reduce the problem.

I appreciate that you and OP want to make the housing situation better, but I strongly feel that lottery is a terrible way to do it. There are other and better solutions that won't force players to completely rely on pure luck.