Are Blizzard II, and Freeze useful at all?

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Never use transpose to switch between fire and ice during a standard rotation, only after Flare. You're severely gimping those Fire 2 casts even more than they are already by only having one stack of Fire.

A proper AoE rotation, given enough spellspeed, should be, from starting: B3 > B4 > T4 > F3 > Flare > Flare (> Convert > Flare) > Transpose > repeat from B4, using Foul and Thundercloud as and when they pop.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, but this is what I've been using because Fire 2, Blizzard 2, and Freeze are complete garbage. Could even skip the Thunder 4 if it's less than a specific number of enemies, but I'm not sure on the math of that one.

That's the standard opener in a nutshell, except that you'd preclude your first Flare with a swift cast, then triplecast Flare, Convert, Flare, Super Ether (or whatever Ether gives you 1200+ mana) Flare. It's not hard to work in that ether either; this is a BLM who doesn't use Sharpcast but I worked in the consumable because 4 flares is just GLORY. That's the only reason I even consider it. Fire 2 is useful if you have to revert to the old AOE rotation (waiting for CDs or Foul or whatever) instead of trying to creak out consecutive flares without Swiftcast/Triplecast. And if you're melded for spellspeed, T4 is so so good.

OP, here's some helpful tips for successful Black Mage-ing:

Get used to using Transpose to transition between Ice and Fire while you're moving between mobs. Your goal is to keep the timer active. This doesn't really do anything expressly useful until you get Foul at level 70 but it's a good habit to get into and it will help you regen mana between fights.

Also get used to starting your rotations with Blizzard 3. They changed the way Black Mage works a little in SB so until you hit level 60 and can make use of Blizz 4, Fire 4, and Enochian it's not really necessary but it'll make transitioning when you do have those skills much much more natural. Also you'll get used to the switch between B3 and F3. It's super fast and what you'll use instead of Transpose once you unlock both level 3 spells. And as Corbin pointed out, your damage rotation should always start with F3 so you have full Astral Fire stacks (3) to do damage in. You can extend your full stacks by throwing out a F1 but Transpose only gives you one stack no matter what so doing damage straight out of that is basically like poking something with a stick.


When you get Manaward, put it on your bar and keep it there. It's your tank stance.


And finally: the secret to Black Mage is that it's rotations are designed to make use of timing more than anything else. Your standard ARR aoe rotation is F3>F2>F2>F2>Flare>Transpose>F3>F2>F2>F2>Flare>Transpose X repeat (second part) ad infinitum (you can substitute an T2 for one of the F2s for the proc, I'd do it right after the Fire 3). This rotation is designed so that the slow cast of F3 gives you just enough mana for the 2-3 casts of F2 + Flare before Transpose starts the chain over again. The other rotations are like this also. Successful execution should make it so you never ever run out of mana. This is why BLM is a prime class to use the Manashift ability.


Freeze has always been the odd duck. No rotation I've ever used includes it but it's cool looking and useful for World Map so just keep that in mind. Happy Black Mageing!

[Sunako]

Never use transpose to switch between fire and ice during a standard rotation, only after Flare. You're severely gimping those Fire 2 casts even more than they are already by only having one stack of Fire.

A proper AoE rotation, given enough spellspeed, should be, from starting: B3 > B4 > T4 > F3 > Flare > Flare (> Convert > Flare) > Transpose > repeat from B4, using Foul and Thundercloud as and when they pop.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, but this is what I've been using because Fire 2, Blizzard 2, and Freeze are complete garbage. Could even skip the Thunder 4 if it's less than a specific number of enemies, but I'm not sure on the math of that one.

Well the thing is you are using fire 3 spell that is singletarget spell on top of of that it is insanely long cast time with only 1 ice stack(3.5 seconds). If you compare damage difference between fire 3 + flare or transpose + fire 2 + flare, fire 2 + flare surpass overall aoe damage over fire 3 + flare with same time frame. Fire 2 is 4k damage with one fire stack, flare is 15k damage with two fire stacks and three stack of flare is doing 16k damage. Why would you waste 3.5sec for singletarget spell in aoe rotation that is only 7k damage?

[Frizze]

So lets compare potencies. We'll use 6 targets(fairly standard 2 group dungeon pull) for the math.
For T4 B4 Trans F2 F2 Flare Flare Trans Foul: Thunder will give you 1380 potency, with blizzard at 260. Transpose puts you in astral 1. First F2 will give you 672 potency(and astral 2), then 768 for 2nd(plus full damage buff), 1778 for flare and 1778 for 2nd flare. Then Foul caps the round at 2925. Thats 9561 total potency over 23.7 seconds of cast time(or 403 potency per second). In addition, because you plan to use trans to switch back into fire you'll need to kill close to 2 seconds extra in each umbral phase after the first to wait out the cooldown(which drops PPS going forward to 372ish).
For T4 B4 F3 Flare Flare Trans Foul: Thunder and blizzard are still 1380 and 260. Fire 3 potency is 216(debuffed because youre in ice), flare and flare are still 1778 each. And we still end with foul at 2925. That totals 8337 potency in 20.5 seconds(407 pps).

So looking strictly at the math, cycling through to your harder hitting spells(flare and foul) with as little filler as possible does end up netting better overall damage. Those 3.5 seconds feel like they take an eternity, but the extra 40% damage is worth a little pain.

[Zerathor]

Well the thing is you are using fire 3 spell that is singletarget spell on top of of that it is insanely long cast time with only 1 ice stack(3.5 seconds). If you compare damage difference between fire 3 + flare or transpose + fire 2 + flare, fire 2 + flare surpass overall aoe damage than fire 3 + flare. Fire 2 is 4k damage with one fire stack, flare is 15k damage with two fire stacks and three stack of flare is doing 16k damage. Why would you waste your global for singletarget ability in aoe rotation that is only 7k damage?

F3 flare flare with 4 targets is 3,117.6 potency, starting from umbral ice one. Assuming you had no triple or swift, ignoring sps modifier this is 11.5s. 271.1 potency per second. This also assumes you got umbral hearts.

No umbral hearts, f3> flare is 1666.8 potency with 4 targets over 7.5s. 222.4 pps.

Your transpose f2 flare is 1737.6 potency with 4 targets over 7 seconds, 248.2 pps.

In a scenario your transpose was off cd to do this (possibly between a pull) and you didn't have umbral hearts to set up, and the targets will die before a second rotation(transpose will be on cd for another second), trans into AF1 f2 flare can be a brief 26 pps gain. But that's pretty niche to worry about imo.

The issue of sustaining this is that transpose is 8s cd. After flare, transpose, b4 t3 is 5.3s, leaving 2.7s of downtime which will negate the gain it has. Maybe if you had a very slow mp tic and you noticed it, you could do this for a small gain however.

[Sunako]

The issue of sustaining this is that transpose is 8s cd. After flare, transpose, b4 t3 is 5.3s, leaving 2.7s of downtime which will negate the gain it has. Maybe if you had a very slow mp tic and you noticed it, you could do this for a small gain however.

Well I usually weave last flare with either triplecast or swiftcast that leave me like two second before next gcd is up, then use foul 2.5 sec + blizzard 4 is 3 seconds and thunder is 2.5 - 3 sec depending if you have proc, if you use sharpcast you can thunder twice. There is plenty of ways fit that 8 second timer. I do not force anybody use that rotation, but i said i use it myself.

[Jonnycbad]

They should retool Blizzard II to be like Miasma II. Instant AoE low damage. Useful when mobs have the l Aast 5% HP left or so, and it wouldn't cancel AF. Freeze should be BLM's Shadow Flare/Doton ground-targetted oGCD DoT...or maybe they can't do this because it would mean BLM would have 2 targeted ground AoEs with Freeze and Leylines, and I know SCH can only have Sacred Soil OR Shadow Flare... Perhaps they can make Freeze into the ice version of Flare but doesn't consume all MP, instead it gives you Umbral Ice 4 or something.

[Kurando]

snip.

Well when Shadow Flare had casting time and you could use it as many times as you wanted, yeah it kinda made sense to not be allowed both that and Sacred Soil active at the same time. However since SF was made a cooldown instead, there is really no reason to not being to have both area placements active so saying that.... Freeze being ground aoe shouldn't be problem but what would make it unique, it'd just be another copy and paste aoe really and SE already got rid of one with BRD's Flaming Arrow.

Blizzard II should just trait in to Freeze, with the latter given more actual use for all content not just ARR/solo stuff, akin to the improvements to SMN's Tri-Bind.

[Zerathor]

Well I usually weave last flare with either triplecast or swiftcast that leave me like two second before next gcd is up, then use foul 2.5 sec + blizzard 4 is 3 seconds and thunder is 2.5 - 3 sec depending if you have proc, if you use sharpcast you can thunder twice. There is plenty of ways fit that 8 second timer. I do not force anybody use that rotation, but i said i use it myself.

It's certainly not bad, it's just a little extra effort with a little gain and room for more errors. Blm aoe rotation is pretty much only used in 4 mans where I kinda prefer to just auto pilot flare spam. Or uwu garuda where you're already in af3 during both add parts with one umbral heart to double flare transpose foul (depending on your sps)

Then on another topic, freeze.
I think the only use I've found freeze can do in raids is if a boss goes untargetable and you're in UI, you can precast it where the boss will spawn to maintain UI3, or get a miniscule extra poke in for free. That's extremely niche, and not super amazing usually when you pull it off, but, it's something I suppose.

[Kabooa]

Short Answer: No

Long answer: They're almost obsolete when you pick them up, and obsolete by the time you get other aoe options.

[ManuelBravo]

Short Answer: No

Long answer: They're almost obsolete when you pick them up, and obsolete by the time you get other aoe options.

-.-/ right only people who know the job properly and know when to use it find it useful. it's fun to see people run around, specially blm's who think they know their job, disregard it as they get killed do to mobs which could of been avoided if they knew how or what bind even means.

They are not meant for DMG, they are meant for support during tight spots when tanks fail or hate control is needed. Specially if sleep is being resisted.

Short answer; yes it's useful IF you know when and how it's meant to be used.

Long answer; only someone who depends on others for survival would find it useless. ( no offense , it's just a logical and realistic answer. )