Consolidated Combos would solve the issue of button bloat going into Shadowbringers

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Dragoon does have slight button bloat. Why do we need two separate combo openers: True Thrust and Impulse Drive? DRK, WAR, PLD, NIN, SAM all have 1 combo opener GCD that branches. Further, why does Heavy Thrust exist? SAM get their damage buff from their 2nd hit, as does WAR. Vorpal Thrust is just pure damge with no buff or debuff, why not give it HT's buff and also make True Thrust open either combo. Bam now you have 2 free slots.

As an offtopic aside, I don't think DRG will get a 4th Jump unless it's a conditional oGCD or a straight upgrade. Moreover, SE addressed the issue of jump animation lock associated with jumps by giving us Mirage Dive. Mirage Dive, for all intents and purposes is a 4th Jump in that it's a ranged oGCD, but it doesn't cause personal animation lock because there's no movement (the dragon spirit does the jump). Giving us a traditional jump means more animation lock. If they made it like SSD/DFD to reduce animation lock, then DRG will have 4 gap closers, while other jumps only have 1. It would be a bit ridiculous.

Because DRG double weaves. Heavy Thrust lets you fit in all your buffs before Chaos Thrust, which is your strongest GCD. Doing what you suggests makes it impossible to fit Battle Litany, Blood for Blood, Dragon Sight and a potion before Chaos Thrust. Therefore, you'd have to delay something, which is ultimately a damage loss. Adding to this, putting it on Vorpal Thrust means we now have to start with our weaker combo first, which throws off raid buff timings. And before you suggestion Disembowel. That would make us either drop a combo or override Chaos' DoT. All these leads to more damage loss, especially in fights with multiple targets like M/F.

SAM doesn't have these problems because the bulk of their damage comes from Shinten and Midare. They can also afford to delay a double weave and lose nothing doing so. DRG can't.

[Grimoire-M]

Because DRG double weaves. Heavy Thrust lets you fit in all your buffs before Chaos Thrust, which is your strongest GCD. Doing what you suggests makes it impossible to fit Battle Litany, Blood for Blood, Dragon Sight and a potion before Chaos Thrust. Therefore, you'd have to delay something, which is ultimately a damage loss. Adding to this, putting it on Vorpal Thrust means we now have to start with our weaker combo first, which throws off raid buff timings. And before you suggestion Disembowel. That would make us either drop a combo or override Chaos' DoT. All these leads to more damage loss, especially in fights with multiple targets like M/F.

SAM doesn't have these problems because the bulk of their damage comes from Shinten and Midare. They can also afford to delay a double weave and lose nothing doing so. DRG can't.

Pop the potion pre-pull at 2s then. It's not like that moment you're running up to the boss can't be put to use, and it loses absolutely nothing that way. If you're using Elusive to get in for some reason, you'll have to give that up, but it's worth it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Pop the potion pre-pull at 2s then. It's not like that moment you're running up to the boss can't be put to use, and it loses absolutely nothing that way. If you're using Elusive to get in for some reason, you'll have to give that up, but it's worth it.

Uh... no. DRG uses their potion three GCDs into their rotation. Using it at two seconds pre-pull means we lose four GCDs under a potion, one of which includes the second Chaos Thrust. None of this even accounts for Elusive, which can delay your GCD even further, thus losing more damage under your pot window. If anything, Dragon Sight would be moved around. Regardless, there's a reason none of the melee DPS or tanks use their potions pre-pull. In fact, I think only BRD and healers use pots pre-pull

No, it's not worth it just because you dislike pressing an extra button. You don't even play DRG. Stop insisting it needs changes, especially when they impact its optimization.

[Grimoire-M]

Uh... no. DRG uses their potion three GCDs into their rotation. Using it at two seconds pre-pull means we lose four GCDs under a potion, one of which includes the second Chaos Thrust. None of this even accounts for Elusive, which can delay your GCD even further, thus losing more damage under your pot window. If anything, Dragon Sight would be moved around. Regardless, there's a reason none of the melee DPS or tanks use their potions pre-pull. In fact, I think only BRD and healers use pots pre-pull

No, it's not worth it just because you dislike pressing an extra button. You don't even play DRG. Stop insisting it needs changes, especially when they impact its optimization.

A potion won't give as much as any of the cooldowns you'd have to shuffle instead for it, including Dragon Sight, which is worth more in the opener. Regardless of where it moves it'll miss the second Chaos Thrust in that scenario, and buffing the first one under all raid buffs is better than the second 30s later when they're all gone. That's the better adaptation if that happened.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

A potion won't give as much as any of the cooldowns you'd have to shuffle instead for it, including Dragon Sight, which is worth more in the opener. Regardless of where it moves it'll miss the second Chaos Thrust in that scenario, and buffing the first one under all raid buffs is better than the second 30s later when they're all gone. That's the better adaptation if that happened.

... it already misses the second Chaos Thrust. Seriously. Please stop talking about what DRG needs or how it's supposed change is"worth it" when you have zero idea how the job's buff alignments even work. Giving up 4-5 GCDs under a pot window is a significant damage loss. That simply will not happen, and is precisely why DRG has an extra button. Unless they add another GCD or fundamentally change how our current combo works. Heavy Thrust will stay to make double weaving easier.

[Jonnycbad]

Because DRG double weaves. Heavy Thrust lets you fit in all your buffs before Chaos Thrust, which is your strongest GCD. Doing what you suggests makes it impossible to fit Battle Litany, Blood for Blood, Dragon Sight and a potion before Chaos Thrust.

Players invented "double weaving" and "optimal rotations" and reliance on stat potions, it doesn't affect how the developers designed Dragoon. So the notion that you wouldn't be able to have all your buffs fit before Chaos Thrust is irrelevant.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Players invented "double weaving" and "optimal rotations" and reliance on stat potions, it doesn't affect how the developers designed Dragoon. So the notion that you wouldn't be able to have all your buffs fit before Chaos Thrust is irrelevant.

The devs do consider how we play hence why jobs have changed from poor design philosophies; Warrior comes to mind. Be that as it may, you're insisting DRG has button bloat when my examples prove the contrary. Furthermore, this insistence this somehow makes DRG better is more than a little silly when the person arguing such doesn't actively play DRG.

[Ruinfeild]

Regardless, there's a reason none of the melee DPS or tanks use their potions pre-pull.

Not sure what groups you run with but most if not almost all tanks when ask about potions in the balance discord are told to pop them at least two seconds pre-pull. Hell, I do it all the time.

[Shurrikhan]

Not sure what groups you run with but most if not almost all tanks when ask about potions in the balance discord are told to pop them at least two seconds pre-pull. Hell, I do it all the time.

Why, unless the fight would end with n seconds remaining otherwise? Your opener isn't that packed on any tank to spend it on two weaker GCDs when you could otherwise not. You're still going to wait for TA, BL, HC, BV, CS to go ham anyways.

[Dmhlucky]

Maybe they will just upgrade and augment the current abilities in Shadowbringers.
Or maybe less new abilities/spells and more traits.
Too much on the toolbar was breaching on a problem before Stormblood, and its only going to get worse the further forward we go up until 99 or 100.

Menu's have an advantage here, as they are unlimited, and yes, we can opt out of some abilities, but then why have them.

But for healers and damage spells, it is pretty bad. We basically have 2 options, AOE or Single target. Stone 4 was cool when it was released, now i don't even watch the screen sometimes (solo crap, not party)

I keep going back to this argument, we needed functional elements that mean something. Give Whm another water based spell. Give an actual damage based Wind spell, maybe something that could be used with lilies or boosted with lilies (or whatever they are to be replaced with, since the consensus is they are horrible)
Boost holy and Stone with them, and make it last a few seconds, not just 1 spell cast.

Since the most important stat on abilities it their Potency, having 2 skills withe the same value, that have no other effects is pointless. (without elements) If there are conditions, like After a cure, Stone's potancy is boosted by 30, or after a regen or medica 2, Aero's potancy is boosted by 30 and dot by 5, or something of the like.

Its hard to break free from the idea of different circumstances need different abilities that i have from 11, its something that i've always missed from that game. It is something that they had in 1.0, but i do get why they dropped it. It won't work in this game.