Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272

[Laphael]

I've seen tanks get one shot by the tank buster of the last boss in Castrum Abania so I wouldn't recommend it, not that it can't be done but the healer will be working overtime on more than one occasion to make up for the lack of gear.

Exactly, that boss hits like a truck.

[HyoMinPark]

What I'm saying i270 is not "undergeared" for SB dungeons, in much the same way that i380 is not "undergeared" for current EX dungeons just because i390+ stuff exists.

Aaaaaand, he still continues to make a comparison between two completely incomparable scenarios.

i270 Augmented Shire in Castrum Abania—the dungeon in question in this thread—is undergeared. It’s on-par in Bardam’s, as Shisui drops i270 gear that share the same DEF/M.DEF values with the Augmented Shire, and begins to become undergeared in Doma Castle. It is undergeared in Castrum Abania, where there is a difference of 259 DEF/M.DEF between the i270 body and the one that drops from Doma Castle. With the HQ crafted body, there is a 324 DEF/M.DEF. This also applies to the legs for all 3 pieces in question, as they share DEF/M.DEF values—so that’s a total of +518 DEF/M.DEF with the body+legs from Doma and +648 DEF/M.DEF with the HQ level 68 body+legs.

But yeah. That’s totally insignificant.


Comparing i270 in Castrum to i380 in The Burn/Saint Mocianne’s HM are not remotely comparable.

There is massive jump in DEF/M.DEF stats from i270 to i290 compared to i290 to i380 (and we aren’t even considering VIT here, which will increase a tank’s HP pool—something that’s a bit important when it comes to survival); far more than in the difference amongst the level 70 gear. From the Antiquated i290 fending body (911 DEF/M.DEF) to the i380 Scavaen body (1190 DEF/M.DEF), there is only a 279 DEF/M.DEF difference between the body/legs. 90 item levels, and it’s barely the same numerical increase as i270 to i282. Don’t get me wrong; it’s still significant. But not so much as the increase from Augmented Shire to more relevant gear closer to Castrum Abania’s level.


It’s funny that you enjoy calling other people delusional when you continue to ignore the numbers right in front of you.

[Liam_Harper]

Just for reference: The Defense gain from 310 to 380 is LESS than the defense gain from 270-285. It's an 18% jump in defense from 310 to 380.

Interesting game design. It sounds like a noob-trap tbh. Most players would be expecting fairly consistent stat increases with ilv and would see the difference between 270 and 280 as fairly minor. I admit I never knew about this.

Since this is the case, I fully agree that 272 is way undergeared. You just can't turn down that sort of defense as a tank.

However, I think it's poor design and players need to be made more aware of it. This is why we need ilv requirements on dungeons, so the game basically tells you "you aren't geared for this, go gear up". The quests give you the gear, so new players aren't affected. We already have HoH as no-requirement 61-70 leveling for alts anyway. Currently I imagine most players making the lv60-70 climb on alt classes will slap on Shire gear expecting maybe a 5% difference in stats that they could make up by playing reasonably well.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I suppose anyone who ever does anything in the game without the absolute top of the line gear is just being selfish and inconsiderate to you, then. Because that's basically what your position amounts to.

If that's the case, then yep, I guess I'm selfish and inconsiderate. Boo hoo.

Personally I don't give a rat's ass as long as the content gets done cleanly and efficiently, which it generally still did, because regardless of whatever people here seem to think i270 is more than sufficient until you're 70. Not going to say that I never ran into any "Doody Finder" tier parties, which I did, but that's going to happen to everyone eventually regardless of gear.

That is only my position when you put words in my mouth. We have already established there is a significant difference between someone going into Savage at i380 instead of i400, and you going into leveling dungeons with upwards of 300+ less defense. The fact this continues to elude you is utterly baffling.

"I don't give a rat's ass" sums it up pretty well. Of course, it's the raiders with their dastardly pasers who are the toxic players!

[Fynlar]

It's more to do with your flippant attitude, the way you talk down to everybody,

Nobody else here is doing anything that though, with their posts of "oh, if anyone got in my Abania party with i270 gear I'd totally kick them (even though that's more than sufficient to do the dungeon with and I'm just being super entitled and will only accept the absolute fastest dungeon runs possible and tolerating anything less than that is just ENABLING crappy players)", right?

It's by definition not efficient because your gear is trash, Mr Rat's Ass.

Except it isn't. I don't subscribe to your "if it isn't the best, it's garbage" nonsense.

It’s funny that you enjoy calling other people delusional when you continue to ignore the numbers right in front of you.

And yet despite all your numbers, I wasn't getting my ass kicked in these dungeons. Maybe it's because... *gasp* the dungeons aren't that difficult and the numbers don't actually mean as much as you think they might?

The DEF stat really doesn't make as huge of a difference as many of you are blowing it up to be (and I'm pretty sure that this at least partially accounts for me not getting my ass kicked tanking these dungeons in i270 like people here insist I must have been). People were already figuring this out way back in 2.x when Foresight was still being picked apart as a cross class ability, and often ridiculed for failing to even make a visible difference most of the time.

Protect got picked apart in a similar fashion too. A lot of people, myself included, conceded that even though it didn't actually make that much of a difference, it's still something you had to set and use anyway or else you will inevitably get people piping up saying "y u no protect??!//" and refusing to move from the start of the dungeon because they were absolutely convinced that it had way more of an effect than it actually did and that they were going to die horrible deaths without it.

[Ilan]

Interesting game design. It sounds like a noob-trap tbh. Most players would be expecting fairly consistent stat increases with ilv and would see the difference between 270 and 280 as fairly minor. I admit I never knew about this.

Since this is the case, I fully agree that 272 is way undergeared. You just can't turn down that sort of defense as a tank.

However, I think it's poor design and players need to be made more aware of it. This is why we need ilv requirements on dungeons, so the game basically tells you "you aren't geared for this, go gear up". The quests give you the gear, so new players aren't affected. We already have HoH as no-requirement 61-70 leveling for alts anyway. Currently I imagine most players making the lv60-70 climb on alt classes will slap on Shire gear expecting maybe a 5% difference in stats that they could make up by playing reasonably well.

You could check that for yourself. If you still have some shire gear go to the MB and compare it to the lvl 68 crafted gear.

[Dualgunner]

Nobody else here is doing anything that though, with their posts of "oh, if anyone got in my Abania party with i270 gear I'd totally kick them (even though that's more than sufficient to do the dungeon with and I'm just being super entitled and will only accept the absolute fastest dungeon runs possible)", right?

Nope, nobody else has claimed that other players are just blatantly worse at the game because they decide that handling an undergeared tank isn't worth their time.

Except it isn't. I don't subscribe to your "if it isn't the best, it's garbage" nonsense.

I don't subscribe to your "If we cleared it then my gear was fine" nonsense.

And yet despite all your numbers, I wasn't getting my ass kicked in these dungeons. Maybe it's because... *gasp* the dungeons aren't that difficult and the numbers don't actually mean as much as you think they might?

The word "carried," again, comes to mind.

The DEF stat really doesn't make as huge of a difference as many of you are blowing it up to be (and I'm pretty sure that this at least partially accounts for me not getting my ass kicked tanking these dungeons in i270 like people here insist I must have been). People were already figuring this out way back in 2.x when Foresight was still being picked apart as a cross class ability, and often ridiculed for failing to even make a visible difference most of the time.

If Foresight were a 53.9% increase to the DEF stat, things would have been different.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Just for fun. I did some basic, dreadful, MATH. A DRG rocking the full Gazelleskin level 68 set will have 2680 defense. Mr. Shire tank will have 2286.

Let that sink in for a moment.

[CorbinDallas]

One person's personal feelings and experience means way more than that of the majority who contest it with statistical facts and figures. Move along everybody, we aren't going to get through to him if we haven't already.

In my personal opinion and experience, A9S was a harder fight than A8S. Throw numbers at me all you want, but it's my experience with the content and you're all just bad. /s

[Fynlar]

The word "carried," again, comes to mind.

I'm starting to think that's your go-to response to anything you deem as less than optimal. (Hint: it kinda loses its meaning when used that way.)