SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[jon041065]

So what you're saying is that they shouldn't tailor jobs that cater to any player group you're not a part of. There's no way they can please everyone, but as long as you're happy, we're good, right? Some of us want BLU to be as it is. I am one of those people.

Good jobs putting words in my mouth. I've been saying for weeks now that jobs should be for everyone and that I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want. I think this type of content is possible without limited jobs.

Here's another post from Blueye that nicely states that view as well.

I prefer to not think of it as two sides that are in opposition to each other, even if that is the harsh reality of the situation. I would prefer to see players working together on this.

If I had to state my stance, it's in opposition to Limited Jobs, but I say that because I believe just about everything there is to like about Limited Jobs, such as an emphasis on solo capability, a new solo instance, a unique way to acquire actions, and branching beyond the established cookie-cutter formula, all of that can coexist alongside a job that is balanced for end game. That is what I believe. I won't argue that balancing a job like that would be easy, but I don't regard it as an impossible task.

So that is my stance. For those that like Limited Jobs, I don't want the good things about it to be taken away. I just want those who wish to see Blue Mage as a balanced job that can access all content to get what they want too. It won't be an easy feat. It's not a goal that can be achieved in the near future, but it's what we should strive for.

I see where you're coming from. It all comes down on how we see the job. My idea of RDM was always a supporter job. RDM were decent healers, damage dealers and buffers. They were decent at everything, but didn't excel at anything. It's nice how they managed to work black and white magic into XIV RDM, but it all relates to damage dealing. The only supporting abilities it got was one group buff, a mediocre heal and raise. It's great that people like it, but it wasn't my fantasy job come to reality like how you see it. If it was my choice, I'd rather it be XIV's first support role job, but I admit, that would've needed much more accommodation to accomplish.

You read my post of how I would like to see a talent system in 14. Would you prefer that instead of limited jobs? And if so, why not help us push for that instead of limited jobs?

I feel like there are people on our side that are like "Why cant we meet in the middle? Let's be together because we agree on the end goal so let's show that instead of risking SE seeing all this division and believing it's not worth trying."

[Auryan]

You read my post of how I would like to see a talent system in 14. Would you prefer that instead of limited jobs? And if so, why not help us push for that instead of limited jobs?

I feel like there are people on our side that are like "Why cant we meet in the middle? Let's be together because we agree on the end goal so let's show that instead of risking SE seeing all this division and believing it's not worth trying."

It's better than the current situation, sure. However, I don't think a talent tree is enough for a job like BLU. My opinion is that BLU shouldn't be like WoW's Druid class, but rather a hybrid job. I see BLU as being a DPS/Support, DPS/Heal or DPS/Tank if given the right setup. I really don't know the plan for the limited job system. I would have to see what they plan for 5.0 and onward to see if it the trade-off for BLU was worth it.

[jon041065]

It's better than the current situation, sure. However, I don't think a talent tree is enough for a job like BLU. My opinion is that BLU shouldn't be like WoW's Druid class, but rather a hybrid job. I see BLU as being a DPS/Support, DPS/Heal or DPS/Tank if given the right setup. I really don't know the plan for the limited job system. I would have to see what they plan for 5.0 and onward to see if it the trade-off for BLU was worth it.

What you said you want is the kind of thing I think a talent system like I described would allow. Blu's system wouldn't work with quite the same set up but would with the same idea in my eyes. Like if you had a large pool of "decent" spells and then had a limited amount of slots to pick up "empowered" versions. That way you could focus the gameplay of blue mage into a role type that you enjoy. I personally would love a blu tank.

Check my thread out. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts

So take what I said above and add it with parts of my original post in that thread. Melee blu could work like how I thought samurai would if you picked certain spells. A caster blu could pick spells that let you weave spell combos. Like what if doing a combo using two earth and a water spell made your character do Bad Breath? A blu tank could work like that idea in the reddit link. I'd play the hell out of a tank like that. Old republic made me fall in love with caster based tanks.

Right now, it doesn't sound like blu will be any role at all though. Just have OP spells with gimmicks. We don't know if there's enough there for it to be more than just a dps with some utility or not. Then even if it does, they don't want it to be in current endgame content even if it were to reach the level cap one day.

[Stigmar]

I seen a ton of these threads honestly but until we see the how/what/why of the system there's no way to make a judgement call on if its bad or not, people really need to sit back and play the wait and see approach as with as much drama being stir up all SE will do is take one look and just not bother again and stick with the boring formula that is slowly killing the game instead of trying something new. That said tho please no more eureka style content for relics thanks!

[jon041065]

I seen a ton of these threads honestly but until we see the how/what/why of the system there's no way to make a judgement call on if its bad or not, people really need to sit back and play the wait and see approach as with as much drama being stir up all SE will do is take one look and just not bother again and stick with the boring formula that is slowly killing the game instead of trying something new. That said tho please no more eureka style content for relics thanks!

Some of us feel strongly enough on what we do want that we can say that no matter how fun blu and the Carnival could be that it doesn't make up for not being able to take it into the content we enjoy.

I feel like there are people on our side that are like "Why cant we meet in the middle? Let's be together because we agree on the end goal so let's show that instead of risking SE seeing all this division and believing it's not worth trying."

[Stigmar]

Bottom line is SE wont change it until its live and had chance to gather data ultimately what you want really doesn't factor into it, IF it did eureka wouldn't be so bad and drk would of seen a lot more adjustments instead of being left being the loldrk for this expansion. .. . just saying.

[jon041065]

Bottom line is SE wont change it until its live and had chance to gather data ultimately what you want really doesn't factor into it, IF it did eureka wouldn't be so bad and drk would of seen a lot more adjustments instead of being left being the loldrk for this expansion. .. . just saying.

Good thing that a lot of us have said we are fine with them doing it in the 6.0 expac. That gives them over two years and a full version of blue mage could be one of the jobs/features of that expac. Requesting it isn't different than people requesting other jobs they want to see.

And they do take our feedback into consideration or we would still have 2.0 smn and bow mage.

[Nabril]

Good jobs putting words in my mouth. I've been saying for weeks now that jobs should be for everyone and that I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want. I think this type of content is possible without limited jobs.

But you, as a single player, have absolutely no idea what most of the player base wants. You, as a single player, do not speak for the majority of the player base. Yet, here you are acting as though you do know what the majority wants or doesn't want and you're trying to speak for all of them. There's no way you know if half, most, or less than half want this kind of limited job for Blue Mage. You have no source. You have no statistics. You have not gone around and asked the entire player base in order to get a valid number.

So, yes, I maintain that you are in fact speaking for only YOURSELF about something that YOU do not like.

[jon041065]

But you, as a single player, have absolutely no idea what most of the player base wants. You, as a single player, do not speak for the majority of the player base. Yet, here you are acting as though you do know what the majority wants or doesn't want and you're trying to speak for all of them. There's no way you know if half, most, or less than half want this kind of limited job for Blue Mage. You have no source. You have no statistics. You have not gone around and asked the entire player base in order to get a valid number.

So, yes, I maintain that you are in fact speaking for only YOURSELF about something that YOU do not like.

I never stated that I was speaking for more than myself in that post. During the past month, I've participated in this debate and have seen what the other people also in the debate say they want. There's been nothing yet to make me believe that limited jobs are necessary for the solo content that a lot have said they are interested in and there are others that agree with that. I never said "all players" because it's impossible to make everyone happy.

And what you said applies to you as well pal.

[Shougun]

And they do take our feedback into consideration or we would still have 2.0 smn and bow mage.

Some of this thread reminds me of summoner threads lol. I remember asking for some more grandiose primal specific actions and whenever I'd ask for it most (definitely not all) people would be like "you can't have 100% primal on screen its too big, it will break the game" / "yoshi-p said no!" / "impossible!".

At one point I literally quoted every post I made (which was like 50... >.>) to prove I never asked for 100% primal, because it was such a common response to me asking for something with a bit more bang (even though almost every post also included "I dont want to destroy the screen").

About a year for ahk morn reveal, and then a bit later demi-bahamut. :/ lol.

I want to be fair though and say there were some people asking for like "1000% primal", or others that thought it was unlikely but not entirely dismissive, but there was so much lumping to make one side look horrible, and on top of that this request, blue mage in duty finder state, will be a lot more work than adding sexy spells to summoner (so it's a big ask for sure).

That said I'd definitely say they take feedback into consideration and if we can show patience and reasonable feedback ("I want every single blue mage spell to be balanced for duty finder", that sounds exceptionally daunting ask - but most of us aren't asking that) - it could happen, with a lot of time lol.