SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[jon041065]

So what you're saying is that they shouldn't tailor jobs that cater to any player group you're not a part of. There's no way they can please everyone, but as long as you're happy, we're good, right? Some of us want BLU to be as it is. I am one of those people.

Good jobs putting words in my mouth. I've been saying for weeks now that jobs should be for everyone and that I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want. I think this type of content is possible without limited jobs.

Here's another post from Blueye that nicely states that view as well.

I prefer to not think of it as two sides that are in opposition to each other, even if that is the harsh reality of the situation. I would prefer to see players working together on this.

If I had to state my stance, it's in opposition to Limited Jobs, but I say that because I believe just about everything there is to like about Limited Jobs, such as an emphasis on solo capability, a new solo instance, a unique way to acquire actions, and branching beyond the established cookie-cutter formula, all of that can coexist alongside a job that is balanced for end game. That is what I believe. I won't argue that balancing a job like that would be easy, but I don't regard it as an impossible task.

So that is my stance. For those that like Limited Jobs, I don't want the good things about it to be taken away. I just want those who wish to see Blue Mage as a balanced job that can access all content to get what they want too. It won't be an easy feat. It's not a goal that can be achieved in the near future, but it's what we should strive for.

I see where you're coming from. It all comes down on how we see the job. My idea of RDM was always a supporter job. RDM were decent healers, damage dealers and buffers. They were decent at everything, but didn't excel at anything. It's nice how they managed to work black and white magic into XIV RDM, but it all relates to damage dealing. The only supporting abilities it got was one group buff, a mediocre heal and raise. It's great that people like it, but it wasn't my fantasy job come to reality like how you see it. If it was my choice, I'd rather it be XIV's first support role job, but I admit, that would've needed much more accommodation to accomplish.

You read my post of how I would like to see a talent system in 14. Would you prefer that instead of limited jobs? And if so, why not help us push for that instead of limited jobs?

I feel like there are people on our side that are like "Why cant we meet in the middle? Let's be together because we agree on the end goal so let's show that instead of risking SE seeing all this division and believing it's not worth trying."

[Auryan]

You read my post of how I would like to see a talent system in 14. Would you prefer that instead of limited jobs? And if so, why not help us push for that instead of limited jobs?

I feel like there are people on our side that are like "Why cant we meet in the middle? Let's be together because we agree on the end goal so let's show that instead of risking SE seeing all this division and believing it's not worth trying."

It's better than the current situation, sure. However, I don't think a talent tree is enough for a job like BLU. My opinion is that BLU shouldn't be like WoW's Druid class, but rather a hybrid job. I see BLU as being a DPS/Support, DPS/Heal or DPS/Tank if given the right setup. I really don't know the plan for the limited job system. I would have to see what they plan for 5.0 and onward to see if it the trade-off for BLU was worth it.

[jon041065]

It's better than the current situation, sure. However, I don't think a talent tree is enough for a job like BLU. My opinion is that BLU shouldn't be like WoW's Druid class, but rather a hybrid job. I see BLU as being a DPS/Support, DPS/Heal or DPS/Tank if given the right setup. I really don't know the plan for the limited job system. I would have to see what they plan for 5.0 and onward to see if it the trade-off for BLU was worth it.

What you said you want is the kind of thing I think a talent system like I described would allow. Blu's system wouldn't work with quite the same set up but would with the same idea in my eyes. Like if you had a large pool of "decent" spells and then had a limited amount of slots to pick up "empowered" versions. That way you could focus the gameplay of blue mage into a role type that you enjoy. I personally would love a blu tank.

Check my thread out. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts

So take what I said above and add it with parts of my original post in that thread. Melee blu could work like how I thought samurai would if you picked certain spells. A caster blu could pick spells that let you weave spell combos. Like what if doing a combo using two earth and a water spell made your character do Bad Breath? A blu tank could work like that idea in the reddit link. I'd play the hell out of a tank like that. Old republic made me fall in love with caster based tanks.

Right now, it doesn't sound like blu will be any role at all though. Just have OP spells with gimmicks. We don't know if there's enough there for it to be more than just a dps with some utility or not. Then even if it does, they don't want it to be in current endgame content even if it were to reach the level cap one day.

[Nabril]

Good jobs putting words in my mouth. I've been saying for weeks now that jobs should be for everyone and that I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want. I think this type of content is possible without limited jobs.

But you, as a single player, have absolutely no idea what most of the player base wants. You, as a single player, do not speak for the majority of the player base. Yet, here you are acting as though you do know what the majority wants or doesn't want and you're trying to speak for all of them. There's no way you know if half, most, or less than half want this kind of limited job for Blue Mage. You have no source. You have no statistics. You have not gone around and asked the entire player base in order to get a valid number.

So, yes, I maintain that you are in fact speaking for only YOURSELF about something that YOU do not like.

[jon041065]

But you, as a single player, have absolutely no idea what most of the player base wants. You, as a single player, do not speak for the majority of the player base. Yet, here you are acting as though you do know what the majority wants or doesn't want and you're trying to speak for all of them. There's no way you know if half, most, or less than half want this kind of limited job for Blue Mage. You have no source. You have no statistics. You have not gone around and asked the entire player base in order to get a valid number.

So, yes, I maintain that you are in fact speaking for only YOURSELF about something that YOU do not like.

I never stated that I was speaking for more than myself in that post. During the past month, I've participated in this debate and have seen what the other people also in the debate say they want. There's been nothing yet to make me believe that limited jobs are necessary for the solo content that a lot have said they are interested in and there are others that agree with that. I never said "all players" because it's impossible to make everyone happy.

And what you said applies to you as well pal.

[Nabril]

Neither do you and I never stated that I was speaking for more than myself in that post.

Liar

"I've been saying for weeks now that jobs should be for everyone and that I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want. I think this type of content is possible without limited jobs"

This is you speaking against Blue Mage because you want the majority of the player base to get what they want. You're also implying here that Blue Mage is costing the majority of the player base something, but cleverly you have declined to say what that could possibly be.

[jon041065]

Liar

"I've been saying for weeks now that jobs should be for everyone and that I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want. I think this type of content is possible without limited jobs"

This is you speaking against Blue Mage because you want the majority of the player base to get what they want. You're also implying here that Blue Mage is costing the majority of the player base something, but cleverly you have declined to say what that could possibly be.

You need to read full posts and the discussion they are part of because you're distorting what I said.

I've never said that most players want the same thing I want in regard to blue. "I want to see most players get the type of content they want but not at the cost of what others want" is not just something specific to limited jobs. Whenever I've said that, I meant across the whole game. People want solo content and I'm on board with that. People want level sync and I fine either way because I don't see it as having a cost to anyone. I'm not for limited jobs because that is at the cost of people who wanted to main it. It would be nice if SE pushed what the trinity system in 14 is capable of or just moved past it but myself and others don't feel that limited jobs is the correct way to get there.

"Because you want the majority of the player base to get what they want" is this you implying that most are against limited jobs? I'd imagine that most players don't really care and will just play it till they are done with the Carnival and then wait till an update. That for them it won't really be content that keeps them subbing.

I can understand how Auryan believes that limited blu is a way of reaching the desired goal of a less restrictive trinity system that we both said we would like to see. To me, it's backwards but I can understand it so wouldn't be opposed to that method if SE told us that was what they are doing. The live letter didn't make it sound like that is what they are working towards but maybe there was not sufficient info since it sounded like a system for jobs to be in their own little box and not in the full game.

I'm still supporting the "limited jobs" idea and I hope it works.

They broke Summoner to fit him into raid content (he's just a warlock with dots and an ugly pet), so I don't want them to break BLU just to fit him into raid/dungeons.


Every job feels the same already. BLU will be something new, different and probably fun. We'll see.

What I said up above. There doesn't seem to be many that are against most of what you said here but just different view points on if limited jobs is the way to get there.

[Nabril]

I never stated that I was speaking for more than myself in that post. During the past month, I've participated in this debate and have seen what the other people also in the debate say they want. There's been nothing yet to make me believe that limited jobs are necessary for the solo content that a lot have said they are interested in and there are others that agree with that. I never said "all players" because it's impossible to make everyone happy.

And what you said applies to you as well pal.

At no time in the history of this game has Square Enix been required to ask whether something is "necessary" before adding it in as a feature. Were relic weapons "necessary"? Was flying "necessary"? Was Eureka "necessary"? What the hell constitutes "necessary" in this game? It's a video game. Nothing in this game is "necessary". This has nothing to do with what is "necessary" because that term is completely baseless in a video game. You're just arguing against something that you personally don't like. I wish you'd be honest about that.