Thoughts on how we might go from WoL to WoD

[Jonnycbad]

I am convinced that it will be one or any combination of the following tropes:

Both Order and Chaos are dangerous

God and Satan are both jerks

Nice job breaking it, hero.

[EdwinLi]

I am convinced that it will be one or any combination of the following tropes:

Both Order and Chaos are dangerous

God and Satan are both jerks

Nice job breaking it, hero.

I will go for all of the above.

Garleans are trying for Order through control by world conquest and the Alliance is aiming for freedom which we have seen brings Chaos because corrupt individuals are given freedom to act and control the innocent.

Hydaelyn actions for the world of light has been shown to bring destruction still (with the fact she ignored the other worlds which is why she was ignorant of the WoD World being consumed by light until they came to our world to destroy it) and Zodiark will only bring destruction.

From the teaser trailer, it is expect that the WoL basically first breaks the world after successfully defeating the "darkness" that we have spent so long fighting against since 2.0.

[Belhi]

I will go for all of the above.

Garleans are trying for Order through control by world conquest and the Alliance is aiming for freedom which we have seen brings Chaos because corrupt individuals are given freedom to act and control the innocent.

Hydaelyn actions for the world of light has been shown to bring destruction still (with the fact she ignored the other worlds which is why she was ignorant of the WoD World being consumed by light until they came to our world to destroy it) and Zodiark will only bring destruction.

From the teaser trailer, it is expect that the WoL basically first breaks the world after successfully defeating the "darkness" that we have spent so long fighting against since 2.0.

Hydaelyn doesn't have to be a bad guy for us to go WoD. One way or another there was a conflict between Hydaelyn and Zodiark that resulted in the world being split. The thing is, even if she wants to, Hydaelyn cant fix that because she is only a being of light. She, by definition of her nature, cant bring balance. What is needed is a team dark that is open to a final balance and everything we have heard about team Ascian is they want Zodiark to win. The thing is, Zodiark, by his very nature, cant bring balance either.

I think we will be going WoD, not because Hydaelyn is the enemy, but because someone has to take over the role the Ascian's play in maintaining balance. That is in reality the only way we can stop the Ascians permenantly without it triggering a Flood of Light. I do think in Shadowbringers we might get a better learning about why the Darkness is necessary but what is needed is a non antagonistic agent of Darkness who is willing to look on how things could be fixed rather than just carrying on the same conflict that has lead to this situation and caused so many Calamities.

Our characters and the Scions need to find a third option, something that has been the case since we learned Albert's story. I actually have a suspicion that that has been Hydaelyn's intent from the start. Consider the theme song Answers. In it Hydaelyn is basically saying you have to understand and go through the pain of living to understand life's worth and grow. Her words at the very start were her telling us to learn for ourselves.

When we come into the story Hydaelyn is pretty much about to lose. She has lost every encounter so far and she is so weak that in HW she cant even communicate with her champion anymore and needs Minfilia to be her mouth peace. This state is confirmed by the Ascian's dialog stating that she is weak. People think she doesn't care because of what happened to the first shard but if she couldn't even communicate with her own champion on the source it isn't a stretch that she would be completely powerless to stop what was happening on the first. It is only due to being bolstered by the Crystals of Light that she is able to free her emissary to do anything about it.

Currently we are team Light and the Ascians are team Dark. That is a fight no one wins. In the end we need a team Light and a team Dark that can find a middle ground and that almost certainly requires replacing team Dark.

I also feel I should state that Solus himself said he only created the Garlean Empire to create a source of chaos and strife and frankly they have lived up to it. Much of the disasters and even the spread of Primal summoning has been triggered by their aggressive and expansionist approach. That doesn't mean that the Garleans are inherently bad or that most of the empire don't want to achieve order, but that effectively and quite ironically the Ascians have been using achieving that goal as a justification for causing the exact opposite.

[YianKutku]

Garleans are trying for Order through control by world conquest and the Alliance is aiming for freedom which we have seen brings Chaos because corrupt individuals are given freedom to act and control the innocent.

"Corrupt individuals are given freedom to act and control the innocent" applies to the Garlean Empire just as much, though. The Legions are given next to no oversight, and act as their own warlords over their fiefs.

[Vulcwen]

I am convinced that it will be one or any combination of the following tropes:

Both Order and Chaos are dangerous

God and Satan are both jerks

Nice job breaking it, hero.

Potentially add to this:
Zero-Approval Gambit

[EdwinLi]

----

I never said hydaelyn is evil, i said her actions focus on the Light of existence while Zodiark focus on the Darkness of existence.

Neither Light nor Darkness are good nor evil. They are by their nature just the two aspects of existance a being will struggle to align themselves as.

Hydaelyn by her nature is the a being of pure light while Zodiark by his nature is a being of pure darkness. Due to this they only see one side of the full picture when it comes to existance itself. They are neither Good nor Evil, they are just aspect of life that represents the extremes of either Light or Darkness. The "middle ground" is never met because both sides always only see one side of events. For Ascians they only see the darkness side of events which is why their actions always leads into a risk of a wave of Darkness consuming the world (which has happened in one of the shards which is why Eldibus has to be cautious with his own actions and his other Ascians) while WoL actions lead to a wave of Light if they win due to focusing on the light side of events by elmiminating all Ascians in their world(which we see in WoD world when they finally beaten all Ascians).

It is something better explained in game series such as Shin Megami Tensei.

"Corrupt individuals are given freedom to act and control the innocent" applies to the Garlean Empire just as much, though. The Legions are given next to no oversight, and act as their own warlords over their fiefs.

No matter which side takes the most control, Order or Chaos, corrupt individuals will always find a way into power but just through different methods. Order leads to corruption through absolute control while Chaos leads to corruption through absolute freedom. That is why a balance between Order and Chaos must always be maintained because there needs to be enough Order to bring proper development to make people's life better while maintaining enough freedom where people can help advance outside the current norms of society. Also, to maintain enough control to prevent corrupt individuals from reaching a position of power or abuse their power while enough freedom to stop people in power from abusing their control.

This is another thing better explain in a game series such as Shin Megami Tensei.

[Ilenya]

Buncha stuff

This is...Roughly what I was thinking, though parts of my train of thought are more dependant on timing more than anything. The idea of needing Zodiark to balance Hydelaen made me wonder if she hadn't done anything about the First Shard was twofold. First, she just couldn't do it, since a Flood of Light had to be countered by Darkness, which is Zodiark's domain, and because Hydelaen was completely unable to notice it happening due to...Whatever caused the split in the first place.

Unfortunately, the whole idea of needing Zodiark doesn't become absolutely apparent until it is too late, probably after we deal with Elidibus. At that moment, it doesn't matter if we still fight for the Light, because the Flood of Light is starting, and is working to create the perfect world, which includes things like Kuribu coming to personally deal with us. With everything that has happened and everything going on, we take the only route we believe would work. We become the Warrior of Darkness. We fight back the Flood of Light, trying to find a way to release Zodiark without him causing the same issues that triggered the first split, and in doing so fixing the balance that has so desperately gone out of sync. I suppose the first shard and the Void are completely lost to the ability of Hydelaen and Zodiark to fix, but the two together could probably fix the rest, given time, if we can keep the balance where it needs to be.

I feel like most people would take our turning to the 'Dark' side as a betrayal of Hydelaen, but in reality we are doing what is best for everyone, and like usual, we'll be doing it no matter what happens.

(which has happened in one of the shards which is why Eldibus has to be cautious with his own actions and his other Ascians)

I feel like Elidibus is more on the side we're about to take than specifically with the Ascians, namely, that balance is absolutely required. He wants Zodiark back, yes, but because Zodiark is *needed.* I suspect he would have been working with Minfillia and the Scions if the positions were reversed. I need to doublecheck a cutscene if I can find it to remember the conversation, though.

[LineageRazor]

I feel like Elidibus is more on the side we're about to take than specifically with the Ascians, namely, that balance is absolutely required. He wants Zodiark back, yes, but because Zodiark is *needed.* I suspect he would have been working with Minfillia and the Scions if the positions were reversed. I need to doublecheck a cutscene if I can find it to remember the conversation, though.

Well, I doubt we'll ever be on Elidibus's side, due to the fact that the balance he seeks hinges on the deaths of all currently living beings. It might be balanced. It might be the way that the planet is "supposed" to be. But the cost is just too high. We might change to WoD for the purpose of seeking balance, but it's almost assuredly the case that the balance we seek will be a different balance than the one Elidibus believes to be necessary.

[Theodric]

Well, I doubt we'll ever be on Elidibus's side, due to the fact that the balance he seeks hinges on the deaths of all currently living beings. It might be balanced. It might be the way that the planet is "supposed" to be. But the cost is just too high. We might change to WoD for the purpose of seeking balance, but it's almost assuredly the case that the balance we seek will be a different balance than the one Elidibus believes to be necessary.

It's a Final Fantasy game, though. There's a long list of characters in previous titles that have been antagonists and have done terrible things only to team up with the protagonists at a later date for the sake of necessity, a change of heart or some other reason. Kain, Beatrix, Kuja, Rufus, Golbez and Gabranth are but a handful of examples.

It might not happen...but if it did, it wouldn't be without precedent. The story and the characters within are constantly evolving. A few years ago it was unlikely that we'd see the Warrior of Light team up with Gaius. Now that is looking to be inevitable due to necessity.

If Solus pulls a Lahabrea and does something extremely stupid that ticks off even Elidibus, a temporary alliance for the sake of eliminating a mutual threat could very well be on the table.

[SannaR]

Kain started out as a good guy though, it's not his fault he got brainwashed after a bomb exploded right before an earthquake. Then got re-brainwashed because dark luminary magics while being super jealous of his best friend.