A question for the BLU peeps

[Beckett]

There is nowhere in sight, neither in the idiom itself nor in its original meaning, anything implying that it's meant to mean that you cannot put a square peg in a round hole. At all.

The full idiom is literally, "You can't fit a square peg in a round hole."

I definitely disagree with calling a BLU a square peg that can't fit into the round hole of XIV's group content, but I'm sorry, you're just straight up wrong about the meaning of the phrase.

[kikix12]

The full idiom is literally, "You can't fit a square peg in a round hole."

I definitely disagree with calling a BLU a square peg that can't fit into the round hole of XIV's group content, but I'm sorry, you're just straight up wrong about the meaning of the phrase.

No. That's how people modify it, it's not the idiom. The idiom is literally just 'square peg in a round hole', alternatively 'round peg in a square hole'. It is used specifically for people.

Dictionary.com
Collins
Wikipedia
Merriam

Idioms are specific. If you add stuff to them, they stop being idioms. Sure, some people do say "you can't fit a square peg in a round hole", but as I said, it is the modern interpretation of people too ignorant of the actual meaning behind the idiom they try to use. And unlike is the case with definitions of words, idioms cannot evolve. Only be forgotten and new ones made.

[Beckett]

No. That's how people modify it, it's not the idiom. The idiom is literally just 'square peg in a round hole', alternatively 'round peg in a square hole'. It is used specifically for people.

Dictionary.com
Collins
Wikipedia
Merriam

Idioms are specific. If you add stuff to them, they stop being idioms. Sure, some people do say "you can't fit a square peg in a round hole", but as I said, it is the modern interpretation of people too ignorant of the actual meaning behind the idiom they try to use. And unlike is the case with definitions of words, idioms cannot evolve. Only be forgotten and new ones made.

The wikipedia entry originally linked literally says, verbatim, "you can't fit a square peg in a round hole." Your argument is that the original poster of that link didn't read it the article, but that's literally what is written there. If you want to argue that all of society is using the metaphor incorrectly, that's a whole other can of worms, but the original poster in this thread was using it correctly, as stated in the article they linked.

[kikix12]

The wikipedia entry originally linked literally says, verbatim, "you can't fit a square peg in a round hole."

No, it does not...That does appear once, in a quote. The idiom itself is just square peg in a round hole, as that very same article says. Not to mention, every single dictionary.

If you want to argue that all of society is using the metaphor incorrectly, that's a whole other can of worms, but the original poster in this thread was using it correctly, as stated in the article they linked.

I'm arguing that Gemina used it incorrectly and that there are people that use it incorrectly because they interpret it on their own, rather than look at its source. And people seem to be really allergic to dictionaries, arguing that "language is a living thing", calling those that use them "grammar nazis" (which is, also, incorrect, on so many levels) or ignoring them...just like you did.

You can use the metaphor of "can't fit a square peg in a round hole", but that's no longer that idiom. This is the problem.

Also, please stop double+ posting. If you want to respond to multiple posts with quotes then just copy the quotes into one response. Multi-posting is against forum rules on basically every site due to its interference in the flow of discussion.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

No, it does not...That does appear once, in a quote. The idiom itself is just square peg in a round hole, as that very same article says. Not to mention, every single dictionary.

I'm arguing that Gemina used it incorrectly and that there are people that use it incorrectly because they interpret it on their own, rather than look at its source. And people seem to be really allergic to dictionaries, arguing that "language is a living thing", calling those that use them "grammar nazis" (which is, also, incorrect, on so many levels) or ignoring them...just like you did.

You can use the metaphor of "can't fit a square peg in a round hole", but that's no longer that idiom. This is the problem.

Also, please stop double+ posting. If you want to respond to multiple posts with quotes then just copy the quotes into one response. Multi-posting is against forum rules on basically every site due to its interference in the flow of discussion.

Yes it does. Under "Business Management", calls it a idiomatic expression and doesn't say at all that it has a different meaning than the "pure" idiom.

"Business management

This idiomatic expression has proven to be quite durable into the 21st century. It is used in a range of contemporary business-related circumstances; and illustrative examples include:

"As they say, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole. If your boss is like that round hole and you are that square peg, you aren't going to fit in unless you re-shape your edges.""

And nothing there says this has a different meaning than the idiom. In fact, Wikipedia says idiom and idiomatic expression are the same:

"Square peg in a round hole" is an idiomatic expression

[kikix12]

Yes it does.

Read that again...Read again what I said.

I'll make it easier for you by dissecting that.

"As they say, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole. If your boss is like that round hole and you are that square peg, you aren't going to fit in unless you re-shape your edges."

"As they say, you can't fit a (...). If your boss is like that round hole and hole and you are that square peg, you aren't going to fit in unless you re-shape your edges." is the context.
"(...) square peg in a round hole (...)" Is the idiom.

The idiom is used in a context. It also follows the fundamental idea of the idiom as it is originally, a person that does not fit in within a certain group, a misfit. There is no issue there. The "can't fit" is unnecessary there. It is not part of the idiom. It's like saying that "If you're poor then bite the bullet." is an idiom because it adds your own parts to it. The "bite the bullet" is still the only idiom part of that though. The "if you're poor then" is just the context in which the idiom is used.

Idioms are rarely used in void. They are always used in context. Context is not their part however, even if it's a commonly used one. There's almost always something said/written before and/or after them.


On a different note, go on, open the actual dictionaries instead of ignoring them. Several, because there are some that include urban speech in their midst.

Here, in fact. You'll notice one of the definitions, coming from McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs, using the "can't fit".

(Also the cliché: trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, trying to combine two things that do not belong or fit together.)

Note that the term 'cliche' is used here, not 'an idiom' and that its description also mentions "do not belong or fit together". Square peg does not belong in a round hole, but that doesn't mean it doesn't fit. It may or may not.

But with this...that's all from me. It's way beyond the scope of the topic, no matter how you people try to fit it in by arguing about its use here, as it is literally just semantics at this point.

Gemina used the phrase "can't put a square peg in a round hole", which is a working metaphor, but it is not the idiom. It is simply wrong because Blue Mage can be made to fit duty finder, but the phrase itself I never questioned. She however linked the wikipedia article about the "square peg in a round hole", suggesting that she used this idiom...and that's simply wrong. It is an incorrect use of the idiom. The moment she tried to put a tag of the idiom on her metaphor is when she made an error. That's all.

So...take from this what you will.

[Gemina]

Gemina used the phrase "can't put a square peg in a round hole", which is a working metaphor, but it is not the idiom. It is simply wrong because Blue Mage can be made to fit duty finder, but the phrase itself I never questioned. She however linked the wikipedia article about the "square peg in a round hole", suggesting that she used this idiom...and that's simply wrong. It is an incorrect use of the idiom. The moment she tried to put a tag of the idiom on her metaphor is when she made an error. That's all..

Look, I can break down everything you've stated since I last posted but I am going to leave it to just this right here, because this takes it back the very beginning where it becomes clear you are thinking far past the intention behind that statement.

You understand that it is a metaphoric representation of BLU and the current state of FFXIV. However, the phrase itself is recognized as a popular idiom. If you google the damn phrase, you won't have to search far at all to find the word 'idiom' tied to it. I linked it simply because I felt like it, but this does not make it erroneous. I felt like linking it because when you click it, the first thing you read is, "Square peg in a round hole" is an idiomatic expression which describes the unusual individualist who could not fit into a niche of their society." What I am trying to express doesn't go beyond that. It is intended to be a metaphor because I didn't want to have to type all of that out in order to reapply a reality check to the BLUs with the blues. It most definitely was not intended as an opening for a philosophical debate regarding the semantics and proper use of the word idiom.

Look at all your long winded posts to myself and those also trying to get the point across to you. You're not even trying to prove I'm wrong anymore. You're now trying to prove you're right. Just let it go. If you want to keep the discussion pertained to why you disagree with me about BLU not being able to stay true to form with the current state of FFXIV, I'm more than happy to go toe-to-toe with ya.