Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[Kabooa]

They can't even get machinist to play right. They have a job system in whm that is absolutely pointless, and a number of other JOB balancing issues and QoL changes. It has nothing to do with meta. It has everything to do with the fact that they have enough on their plate and in working to give us more than what we've ever had you still demand more. "GIMME MORE!! MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!"

I don't overly find having to go kill monsters I've already killed to unlock a skill I probably won't use as more than I've ever had.

[Darkpaw]

I don't overly find having to go kill monsters I've already killed to unlock a skill I probably won't use as more than I've ever had.

Which affects you, and you alone. No one else. Sure others may feel the same way as you do but it doesn't change facts. We're getting what we're getting. You do with it what you want to do with it.

[Yhisa]

i dont even know what people problems is tbh..... i think this was the best way to implement blue mage into ffxiv

there are 3 jobs in final fantasy that are "Collection" jobs

Blue Mage = Collect skills
Beast Master = Collect Beasts
Puppeteer = Collect puppet parts

this solo content is the best way to add these jobs to FFXIV without running into consent "design" problems within the group content..... these 3 jobs would be a pain to balance due to how they play.... so instead you can be OP as hell in solo content and have fun with these jobs

[Huntrss]

i dont even know what people problems is tbh..... i think this was the best way to implement blue mage into ffxiv

there are 3 jobs in final fantasy that are "Collection" jobs

Blue Mage = Collect skills
Beast Master = Collect Beasts
Puppeteer = Collect puppet parts

this solo content is the best way to add these jobs to FFXIV without running into consent "design" problems within the group content..... these 3 jobs would be a pain to balance due to how they play.... so instead you can be OP as hell in solo content and have fun with these jobs

I agree except the last part but issues with FF14 Duty Finder has always been there from the FF14 2.0 (ARR). It's the fact that Blue Mage bring it more to life. I remember having to wait 30 mins or longer as DPS in ARR,HW,SB and coming soon SB2. Duty finder made it very Easy for Tanks and Healers that they'll defend it without looking at the fact Deep Dungeon is the only safe place to level DPS that or Do Fates left and right or get a group form before going in. the issue with Blue Mages is that Casual players are going this is for me to enjoy and I'll defend it before playing it .. after the fact Casual get to level 10 with only 1 spell if they are lucky instead of going Raiders go do Ultima Raiding. I have my own to do stupid Mob do your spell so I can learn it been on same mob for an hour. try not to kill the mob before the mob has a chance to do it's spell.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So please don't try and use the "muh meta" excuse for something like that, the reason why jobs like MCH, DRK and WHM get flak is not because of their lack of use in "the meta" it's because they play awfully, absolutely awfully and a lot of their core mechanics are unwieldy, this goes doubly so when doing HW/ARR content where most of their previous skills have been gutted(Lul DRK)

Tell this to the Monks and Samurai who can't seem to find many groups willing to take them over Dragoon and Ninja.

As for playstyle. DRK and WHM may be a bit clunky, but they play well enough. DRK is actually the strongest tank for direct mitigation in any magic heavy fight. What keeps them behind is how woefully inferior their kits are to their respective counterparts. WHM does precisely zero things better than Astro. In fact, the only "unique" ability it has over AST is Divine Benison. Yay.

Viability and balance are not the same thing. All jobs are viable, but they haven't been balanced for most of the expansion. It took the devs over a year to address any concerns regarding DRK, RDM or SAM. And even MNK loitered around for a while. All the changes they made were mentioned as early as pre-SB's launch. Balance has been a noticeable issue all expansion—one they need to address come Shadowbringers. While yes, there will always be a meta. A handful of jobs simply do almost everything better than their counterparts. That's a problem.

[MrKimper]

Tell this to the Monks and Samurai who can't seem to find many groups willing to take them over Dragoon and Ninja.

As for playstyle. DRK and WHM may be a bit clunky, but they play well enough. DRK is actually the strongest tank for direct mitigation in any magic heavy fight. What keeps them behind is how woefully inferior their kits are to their respective counterparts. WHM does precisely zero things better than Astro. In fact, the only "unique" ability it has over AST is Divine Benison. Yay.

Oh come on now, are they able to do content? yes, can you clear story quest? yes, can you clear roulette? yes. Can you go on hunts and level sync? yes. despite whatever flaws they may have in raids, they are balanced and able to do, current content, meta or not. I play SAM and have very little problem getting into groups and doing contents, but outside of that I can actually use the job on other things, like roulettes, pvp deep dungeon, I have full access to all content in the game.

BLU does not, you're misunderstanding something being BALANCED for raid and something NOT HAVING ACCESS TO a majority of content that a real job should and ought to be able to. This isn't complaining, this is fact BLU is not a full job on release.

They can't even get machinist to play right. They have a job system in whm that is absolutely pointless, and a number of other JOB balancing issues and QoL changes. It has nothing to do with meta. It has everything to do with the fact that they have enough on their plate and in working to give us more than what we've ever had you still demand more. "GIMME MORE!! MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!"

So what you're saying is that we should just expect nothing? we should not ask for them to balance machinist, we should just be lucky that it's in the game, the same with white mage and Dark arts Knight? I don't think I'm asking much by saying that...yes, we should be given a full new job, ON TOP of them fixing their mistakes with regular job balance.

I am not asking for more, I am asking for "A job that can play all content irregardless of raid viability" you know, something that should, I don't know be a common feature of all jobs added to the game? I don't care about raids and I don't care about raid balance(it would be nice of course) I am saying, that at a bare minimum level what constitutes a job should not be changed because the dev team decided "Well we can't make this work."

Which affects you, and you alone. No one else. Sure others may feel the same way as you do but it doesn't change facts. We're getting what we're getting. You do with it what you want to do with it.

It also affects me, and the multitude of other people that do not want to be locked into ARR fate's and dungeon on a job that we love. Would I be fine with it? yes, because I love BLU, would I like it? absolutely not and I feel that it should be changed.

[Mithia]

Oh come on now, are they able to do content? yes, can you clear story quest? yes, can you clear roulette? yes. Can you go on hunts and level sync? yes. despite whatever flaws they may have in raids, they are balanced and able to do, current content, meta or not. I play SAM and have very little problem getting into groups and doing contents, but outside of that I can actually use the job on other things, like roulettes, pvp deep dungeon, I have full access to all content in the game.

BLU does not, you're misunderstanding something being BALANCED for raid and something NOT HAVING ACCESS TO a majority of content that a real job should and ought to be able to. This isn't complaining, this is fact BLU is not a full job on release.



So what you're saying is that we should just expect nothing? we should not ask for them to balance machinist, we should just be lucky that it's in the game, the same with white mage and Dark arts Knight? I don't think I'm asking much by saying that...yes, we should be given a full new job, ON TOP of them fixing their mistakes with regular job balance.

I am not asking for more, I am asking for "A job that can play all content irregardless of raid viability" you know, something that should, I don't know be a common feature of all jobs added to the game? I don't care about raids and I don't care about raid balance(it would be nice of course) I am saying, that at a bare minimum level what constitutes a job should not be changed because the dev team decided "Well we can't make this work."



It also affects me, and the multitude of other people that do not want to be locked into ARR fate's and dungeon on a job that we love. Would I be fine with it? yes, because I love BLU, would I like it? absolutely not and I feel that it should be changed.

I like that your first 2 replies to quotes counter each other, initially you say that all combat classes are viable regardless of how well they are received in the meta. Then you proceed to go on about how we should complain that certain classes aren't viable.

BLU is something different, we don't know what the future will bring for it. For SB however the limit will be 50. And that is fine, considering we don't know yet what effect it will have on endgame. With patch 4.55 they may up the level to 60. With patch 5.0 when they overhaul the entire game for Shadowbringer BLU may become viable for max level.

Is it really that difficult to acknowledge that BLU may bring along difficulties for the current game and that its not worth the effort to redo everything JUST so you can play it in the last set of MSQ/endgame raids(that haven't been designed with BLU in mind)/roulettes(where drama will surely ensue when a BLU doesn't get his way to get a specific mob).

Just wait, see how BLU works, you are not denied from PF and the level will go up in the near future. See how it works till 50 before you already start flipping tables on the forums.

[Kabooa]

I like that your first 2 replies to quotes counter each other, initially you say that all combat classes are viable regardless of how well they are received in the meta. Then you proceed to go on about how we should complain that certain classes aren't viable.

BLU is something different, we don't know what the future will bring for it. For SB however the limit will be 50. And that is fine, considering we don't know yet what effect it will have on endgame.

Balance is relative.

All jobs are balanced when compared to current content that matters.

All jobs are not balanced when compared to their direct contemporaries.

This creates the scenario where there is no reason to take one Job, because the other option is plain superior in every respect. This is not a contradictory statement, this is a matter of scope.

Blue was stated to not have access to the standard end game content (RE: Raids). This isn't about balance against content or balance against jobs. Blue from conception will not be allowed in there. That is what was said.

That is the entire crux of why this thread exists. In the content that some people find the most fun, Blue isn't allowed in. At all. No other Job has been told no at the point of entry.

That this doesn't bother more of you is near incomprehensible.

[MrKimper]

Just wait, see how BLU works, you are not denied from PF and the level will go up in the near future. See how it works till 50 before you already start flipping tables on the forums.

The person above pretty much stated what I was trying to get across perfectly, what I am saying is that every job at release was able to do all content equally, regardless of raid viability, how well they play, or what composition they play into. That is what I was saying, I can play all of ARR/HW/SB with a Dark Knight or a Samurai or a Machinist and I can clear all content with them.

I'm not asking them to fix it right before it launches, I know that isn't feasible, I am STATING that we SHOULD expect the developer's of this game to at least try to balance jobs. A lot of the arguments in this thread were that BLU couldn't be done and it was selfish and egotistical to expect the developers to balance it on top of balancing other jobs.

I think that is the wrong mindset to have, we should not just be handed something(Again I am not saying we were handed BLU it's not even out yet) ANYTHING and just say "okay this is fine" it's the same reason why Diadem was so poorly received, as was Eureka, and it's why they were in some ways, maybe not successfully, changed.

I'm fine with them messing up or making mistakes or abandoning content, what I am not fine with is people seeming to say "Well what do you expect them to do?" that kind of attitude is bad, I'm fine with people saying why they might like BLU as BOTH sides of feedback are important. I am not fine with people essentially saying "Don't expect anything but bare minimum from the devs" that is a bad thought process.

Edit: To add to that point about me being fine with BLU, I love the job, with Khimari being my favorite BLU, I'll play it on release even if I don't like the concept right now because I love BLU. I have a problem with the fact that when next content/story quest comes around I won't be able to say "I'll hop on BLU and try that" I'll be thinking "Have they updated it's level yet?" which really saddens me. There's an obvious dissonance they've put between BLU and current content that I do not think is healthy.

[Mithia]

BLU isn't a traditional Job, it is a new design.

Neither did they flat out state you won't be able to raid with them, you'll be able to raid level 50 content without any issue at release. I understand the skepticism, however its also incorrect to say you will "never" be able to raid endgame with them. For now it is an issue, but come 5.0 it may be possible. This is due to various reasons, some they stated themselves in the live letter at fanfest. At a later point they will raise the level cap, while we can make assumptions as to why,its irrelevant for now. For the sake of not breaking the current endgame its understandable they won't bring out a new job with access to it. Remember rogue and its balancing issue at the start.

So no, you wont get a BLU to cheese mechanics in Uwu and Ucob right now. But come 5.0 when the game gets an update it could be possible. They would raise the level cap. They never exclude you from PF. You just can't run roulettes and deep dungeons.

Secondly Eureka criticism is pretty unfair as the argument is more often then not "its to grindy". And I agree its boring to just afk in the fate train or wait in the base. However if you actually play the content and interact with new people and not just stick to your social circle the content is actually pretty enjoyable. And even if its not for you, thats fine, there are other people who enjoy the content the way it is. And you'll have to learn to accept that not all content is designed with everyone in mind. Only a minority of the player base is raiding, SE can't always cater to that part. They have received fights like Ucob and Uwu at the cost of 3 dungeons. Personally I'm not fond of light party content but saying that the raiding player base is forgotten this expansion because BLU can't join the raiding scene immediately is an absurd statement.

I understand the sentiment that you wish to "main" the content you enjoy with your favorite class however everyone has a different favorite class. Its interesting that they design a new combat class that doesn't exactly fit into the raiding format immediately. I'd like to see where this goes and if its a success I hope they bring out more classes like BLU.