Let's talk about a ToS Grey Area

[cdsky]

Recently our FC accepted an application from a person wishing to join our FC. After we discussed the rules with her, she joined up with us. Since she was a new person, she had access to the first tab of our FC chest, which is set up so our newcomers are able to do sprout things, without having to take a huge financial hit. This way we can teach our sprouts, and some people who come in WITHOUT the sprout status don't understand some of the ways of how an FC can be beneficial.

The next day we logged in, to find that she had left our FC, and taken with her:

gathering grasp materials (3)
fishmeal (20)
mamook pear (17)
o'ghomoro berries (12)
valfruit (37)
Cieldalaes pineapple (65)
doman plum (23)
magicked stable broom (10)
krakka root (150)
xelphatol apple (20)
glamour prism (380)
glamour dispeller (57)
soot black dye (99)
snow white dye (70)

Thankfully we are an FC that can easily recover, from this theft, it will just take time to regrow the plants...and hunt seals.

When she was asked, if she could, please, return the items that were taken, since she had left the FC, she said, "No, good luck reporting me! ToS works all in my favor!"

What really burns, is that she is correct. Since we did have the items unlocked, she could take off with all of the items in that tab.

We started to ask around about her. Turns out she has been doing this for YEARS.

The reason WHY she can get away with all of this, according to the ToS, you are not allowed to publicly blacken someone's name. You are not allowed to publicly announce that a theft has occurred. So people can continue to 'harvest' FCs in this manner.

What we found out about this person is that the toon she used to steal the items is actually an Alt, whose name she changes ever few weeks, to throw off people. It doesn't matter if an FC is large or small, she goes in, and waits for a day or two and then takes what she can snag, and runs. She then takes those items, and goes back to her main FC and funds her FC with the stolen loot. And that is how she plays FF14. We can't even report her, because she is working within the ToS.

So, now with a sour taste in our mouths, we have locked down applications, we will no longer be taking any more, because we won't know what her new name is, unless we stalk her. We have locked down our chest, and how we are going to explain to sprouts how to use any of the stuff that they should have been allowed to use, right out the gate, I don't know. That krakka root was for them to feed their stabled birds and to get their achievements. And the dyes were for them to color their birds! Ugh.

One person has destroyed the fun for hundreds of us on our server. We have quietly been putting out feelers, and been discovering that MANY FCs have been affected by her greed. Yet...WE CAN NOT REPORT HER OR PUBLICLY WARN OTHER POTENTIAL VICTIMS! This is a grey area, and one that should be addressed.

[Dustytome]

First, report them for disruption of gameplay. Talk to a GM and explain the situation. While they will not return your items (you did give permission), anyone doing this does so with a purpose of malcontent. Their only reason for joining fcs is to swipe things and the GMs need to shut that down. The only other thing you can do is set rules for items in the chest that someone must agree to in game, make note of the time/date of the agreement and reference that in future if you don't want to lock down permissions. I've no idea if it will work, but gms tend to side with agreements made in game.

We've had it happen to us as well (twice). The first time they wiped out the company chest, we've since locked that down. The second time they wiped out all the interactive housing items (fish tank, food, pictures) because for some reason those weren't created to work with housing permissions. Unfortunately other than just not inviting anyone to the fc, there's nothing we can do about the second part.

[Enla]

You don't need to lock down applications. Much as it might put a bad taste in your mouth, you need to put newer players into a 'time out' rank for the first week after they join. They should have no access to the FC chest or furniture within the house, and personally when our FC was more active we locked new players out of making rooms as well just in case the person decided to leave and was suddenly down 300k before they knew it. Once they've survived the initial week, potentially two, with more trustworthy members of the FC picking things out of the chest for them when requested, then you move them into a rank that can access the first tab on their own. You'd be surprised at how many scammers this prevents.

Personally I'd ask around for her lodestone name from the FC's she's affected. I can guarantee at least one has kept a record of it. From there, bookmark it on your browser of choice and check in on it every time you have a new applicant. While she might change her name on the regular, the lodestone ID will never change, allowing you to keep tabs on and at the very least protect your FC from her going forward. It's not a fun thing to do. Believe me, I was the person who maintained the black list for my FC before the majority of us went on hiatus, but it kept us from accidentally accepting bad apples and was well worth the headache.

Sadly, you're likely not going to get SE to change their mind on this matter because there are steps that can be taken to prevent it from happening. In their eyes your lack of taking those steps puts you in just as much fault as the thief. Yet there are steps you can take. You saw it yourself when you reached out to other FC's to find out about this person after the fact. Since SE refuses to allow you to report the person, you need to turn to the broader FC community for protection. That black list I mentioned? The majority of it were names complied from talking with other FC's who would pass along the lodestones of thieves and other people skirting the TOS that they had encountered. Not so we could harass the people in question, but so that if they ever applied to our FC we could turn them away for our own protection.

While you can't publicly shame them, encouraging other FC's to keep in touch with each other going forward will likely help a good deal in mitigating the issue on top of that 'time out' rank that I mentioned.

[Dustytome]

Personally I'd ask around for her lodestone name from the FC's she's affected. I can guarantee at least one has kept a record of it. From there, bookmark it on your browser of choice and check in on it every time you have a new applicant. While she might change her name on the regular, the lodestone ID will never change, allowing you to keep tabs on and at the very least protect your FC from her going forward. It's not a fun thing to do. Believe me, I was the person who maintained the black list for my FC before the majority of us went on hiatus, but it kept us from accidentally accepting bad apples and was well worth the headache.

That might work if they're using name changes or name consistency, but if they're sending disposable alts out to do the dirty work and then head back to their drop-off fc you're not likely to be able to track them.

[Enla]

That might work if they're using name changes or name consistency, but if they're sending disposable alts out to do the dirty work and then head back to their drop-off fc you're not likely to be able to track them.

Very true sadly, I forgot that that was a possibility.

[Jijifli]

The best I can offer is reporting for ruining player's experience, rather than reporting for theft.

Do you have the date/time she said "No, good luck reporting me! ToS works all in my favor!"? I ask because the player is obviously doing this with bad intentions.

Specifically, to quote section 3.2 of the user agreement: "You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other a user." While it's uh... feeling poor english at the end, that's from my own received report, for emoting too much in public.

Hey, if I can get a warning for doing /huh too many times, they're bound to at least get a strike for stealing from fc's with the intention of ruining player experience, specially if they took it from the newbie spot.

[Jonnycbad]

2 solutions for the future:

1) Put only a few of those items of each in your tab#1 of your chest and simply replenish them as they're used once every few days.

2) Or, make tab#2 for items that can be requested by sprouts, but they need to request from a leader and THEN a leader will move a specific# of requested items to the tab#1 to be used by the sprout.

It takes time, sure, but it also limits abuse.

[Rymm]

I wish there was more control over the FC chests. Like, "tab one is open to people of X-rank and lower but people with Y rank can only withdrawn 6 items per day and people with Z rank can only withdraw 3," or something along those lines.

But yes, I would still report her. While you can't do much about the theft, you might be able to nail her for purposefully and maliciously disrupting your game experience. Her response certainly shows premeditation.

[TarynH]

She's just roleplaying as a thief! She pays for her sub too! (Unless she's stealing that...)

Seriously though, people need to utilize permissions and those tabs better in their FC chest. Even go as far as to have trusted players manually hand out certain items to people. As much as it stings (to the OP), sprouts don't really need Chocobo stable items. They should be moved up a tier. >.>

[Lorgana]

Its not a ToS grey area, shes right its totally legal. You should in future just lock the company chest to deposits for people who aren't leaders