SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[Deceptus]

I love to see how people theorycraft about something still doesn't exists but they decided it doesn't meet their standards and because that, it must be redone from scratch/not done/done in the "right" another way, because it will be destined to fail (in these people's heads).

Because SE has a track record of releasing content almost exactly as it's introduced. That's why.

At this point, it is safe to assume that BLU will be implemented just like it's shown.

[Kitfox]

I love to see how people theorycraft about something still doesn't exists but they decided it doesn't meet their standards and because that, it must be redone from scratch/not done/done in the "right" another way, because it will be destined to fail (in these people's heads).

It reminds me the "no one will queue main scenario roulette again" predictions when it was made the "unskippable" change.

Cannot say if you're right or wrong, but on my side, when blue comes out, I'll play it, and if I have fun with it, mission accomplished. If not, I'll maybe say my words here. Words based on facts, not thin air or mystic predictions of what will happen.

By their own words, BLU is a solo job, not suited for group play, because their concept for it includes it breaking game balance. This means it will never be able to participate in level cap content, it can't queue for primals, dungeons, raids, 24-mans, pvp, eureka or anything else that happens at end game. It will never be able to do this because the moment it does, game balance is broken, no matter how fondly people hope they raise the job level cap.

Instead it will be able to do open world stuff, exciting stuff such as FATEs. It will also be able to queue for old level appropriate content, that you could face roll with your max level jobs anyway. Also, it's a fair question to ask, how many times have you done below lvl70 content in Stormblood outside of leveling? Personally I would say zero, if it wasn't for the one time I spent 10 minutes tagging along in Ultima extreme to show some mechanics to raid members in preparation for Ultima ultimate. Outside of the new Masked Carnivale, there's pretty much no point in having BLU, since it doesn't fill in any niche you couldn't do better with some other job. That's not a very large scope for very popular and requested class.

It's a mystery why they drew the line with BLU and didn't adjust it for the MMO genre. They did it with all of the other jobs, DRK, RDM, SMN, BRD, DRG etc. Any of those jobs could've been "impossible implement and balance" if they took a hard-line traditionalist approach. If they wanted to give us new type of content, I would've been very happy with some job specific solo content, but gimping a whole class just because of sentimentalism over what BLU has been in the past is just silly to me. And I'm not even excited for BLU. I just don't want to see other interesting job concepts suffer the same fate.

[jon041065]

By their own words, BLU is a solo job, not suited for group play, because their concept for it includes it breaking game balance. This means it will never be able to participate in level cap content, it can't queue for primals, dungeons, raids, 24-mans, pvp, eureka or anything else that happens at end game. It will never be able to do this because the moment it does, game balance is broken, no matter how fondly people hope they raise the job level cap.

Instead it will be able to do open world stuff, exciting stuff such as FATEs. It will also be able to queue for old level appropriate content, that you could face roll with your max level jobs anyway. Also, it's a fair question to ask, how many times have you done below lvl70 content in Stormblood outside of leveling? Personally I would say zero, if it wasn't for the one time I spent 10 minutes tagging along in Ultima extreme to show some mechanics to raid members in preparation for Ultima ultimate. Outside of the new Masked Carnivale, there's pretty much no point in having BLU, since it doesn't fill in any niche you couldn't do better with some other job. That's not a very large scope for very popular and requested class.

It's a mystery why they drew the line with BLU and didn't adjust it for the MMO genre. They did it with all of the other jobs, DRK, RDM, SMN, BRD, DRG etc. Any of those jobs could've been "impossible implement and balance" if they took a hard-line traditionalist approach. If they wanted to give us new type of content, I would've been very happy with some job specific solo content, but gimping a whole class just because of sentimentalism over what BLU has been in the past is just silly to me. And I'm not even excited for BLU. I just don't want to see other interesting job concepts suffer the same fate.

I don't understand the "wait and see" people as if we were told this was a beta phase during the live letter. They were pretty clear on what their plans are as you said. We hopefully can change their minds.

Then you have the "this is true to what blue mage is" defenders. The learning method they went with is the most common one but that's about it imo. The only main FF title that had more than 30 blue magic spells was FFXI and it was also the only one that made you create a build with your spells. No main FF title locked blue mage/magic out of large parts of the game by design. If it was "true" to blu, it would have something like 24 spells with most doing damage (with some gimmicks) and status effects.

I don't believe blue mage identity is based around what the spells have been programmed to do in past FF games. To me, it is a job that can use enemy spells and how it felt to use those spells. That's why some of the community is able to see blu fitting into FFXIV as more than a limited job.

[Freyt]

IMO the concept of limited jobs is an extremely good idea, and could serve to expand the scope of XIV extremely broadly.

[jon041065]

IMO the concept of limited jobs is an extremely good idea, and could serve to expand the scope of XIV extremely broadly.

"Sometimes you got to go forward by going backward." A wise man named Matthew might have said that some time ago.

So, to you, the way to make the game larger is to put more things in their own little boxes? You think limited jobs will do more to help the game than full jobs WITH fun side content?

[jon041065]

good, and I can't wait to play it. MMO..massive multiplayer online...says nothing about MMOMG..massive multiplayer MUST GROUP..just because you don't like it doesn't mean there isn't people who do. You have the whole rest of the game. And oh, I DO like it as do many others but that's not your agenda is it? Opinions..you know.

So a job should be restricted from part of the game just for reasons? It should be for everyone. It's good you and others are excited about the content that is coming with blue mage but a combat job should be MORE than just a side activity. And people on your side should drop this whole "you have the rest of the game" line of thought. It's more than just raiders that are upset and why should we pay a monthly fee if we are unhappy? Should the game just shrink in player base and content until it's what you say it should be or should it make content for people that already liked what the game had to offer AND try to make content for people that have felt neglected?

[BlitzAceRush]

So a job should be restricted from part of the game just for reasons? It should be for everyone. It's good you and others are excited about the content that is coming with blue mage but a combat job should be MORE than just a side activity. And people on your side should drop this whole "you have the rest of the game" line of thought. It's more than just raiders that are upset and why should we pay a monthly fee if we are unhappy? Should the game just shrink in player base and content until it's what you say it should be or should it make content for people that already liked what the game had to offer AND try to make content for people that have felt neglected?

Thing is, BLU isn't a job, it's a "limited job" they could have gone with a different name but it's not a job, it's a piece of content that can do some of the things a job can do. It's not a full job being "restricted" it's not like the "rest" of BLU exists somewhere or is restrained from use, this is all it is.

SE didn't take a standard job and lock it away from parts of the game, they created a separate piece of content designed for it's own things but you can take it into some parts of the game, like how you can take your Chocobo into the overworld but not into instances.
You're arguing that jobs shouldn't be limited from parts of the game, but BLU isn't a job, it's something different with a different set of defining criteria and rules.

[jon041065]

Thing is, BLU isn't a job, it's a "limited job" they could have gone with a different name but it's not a job, it's a piece of content that can do some of the things a job can do. It's not a full job being "restricted" it's not like the "rest" of BLU exists somewhere or is restrained from use, this is all it is.

SE didn't take a standard job and lock it away from parts of the game, they created a separate piece of content designed for it's own things but you can take it into some parts of the game, like how you can take your Chocobo into the overworld but not into instances.
You're arguing that jobs shouldn't be limited from parts of the game, but BLU isn't a job, it's something different with a different set of defining criteria and rules.

So you're point is that they took a highly requested classic FF job (probably second only to dancer) and turned it into side content meant to boost sub retention. I don't disagree with you but saying that way or the way I did doesn't change the fact that a lot of us feel it's an awful idea and limited jobs are a bad direction to be taking the game. Some of us are choosing to use the only power we have and voting with our wallet.

[BlitzAceRush]

So you're point is that they took a highly requested classic FF job (probably second only to dancer) and turned it into side content meant to boost sub retention. I don't disagree with you but saying that way or the way I did doesn't change the fact that a lot of us feel it's an awful idea and limited jobs are a bad direction to be taking the game. Some of us are choosing to use the only power we have and voting with our wallet.

Which is fine, my point is it's not a job and may never have been.
If your only choice was this or nothing and you'd still rather have nothing, that's fine too.
However there are people who want this, would settle for this or are fine either way.
Personally, I'm fine with the idea, Beast Tamer was pretty much off the table until this concept, I'd happily take one in this form over not getting one at all.

While this is purely anecdotal, simply by looking at the forums, while there were several BLU threads the it's a lot of the same people going round and round and there are even some BLU threads praising the idea again with the same for and against people going round and round and the only vote I found in one of them at the time I viewed it was 53% for to 47% against, many other issues have gotten far larger reactions.

With it not being a unanimous "No" BLU is likely going to have to be thrown on the pyre here SE having come so far are going to be more interested in how BLU preforms out there once it's been released and theirs some data to see.
And we don't even know the end game for limited jobs, we know how BLU will come out of the gate but that's it, how often will it be updated? when and by how much will it's cap be raised?

[jon041065]

Which is fine, my point is it's not a job and may never have been.
If your only choice was this or nothing and you'd still rather have nothing, that's fine too.
However there are people who want this, would settle for this or are fine either way.
Personally, I'm fine with the idea, Beast Tamer was pretty much off the table until this concept, I'd happily take one in this form over not getting one at all.

While this is purely anecdotal, simply by looking at the forums, while there were several BLU threads the it's a lot of the same people going round and round and there are even some BLU threads praising the idea again with the same for and against people going round and round and the only vote I found in one of them at the time I viewed it was 53% for to 47% against, many other issues have gotten far larger reactions.

With it not being a unanimous "No" BLU is likely going to have to be thrown on the pyre here SE having come so far are going to be more interested in how BLU preforms out there once it's been released and theirs some data to see.
And we don't even know the end game for limited jobs, we know how BLU will come out of the gate but that's it, how often will it be updated? when and by how much will it's cap be raised?

Most on our side don't care if blu gets it's own end game. We want to be able to do current content with our friends. Your %s are anecdotal like you said and within the margin of error that's why most have been saying it's a 50/50 split. We are for the most part fine with this side content and it's fine that people are excited for it but we don't want the restrictions. Some on the side I'm on are unsubbing/not returning to the game and adding to the voices that are already telling people that have never tried 14 to stay away. Then think about the wait and see people/those that don't even know what's going on. Some will fall into the love or hate it camps while the majority will just play the content then drop it once they are done. Do you think SE will keep putting resources into a type of content that most are indifferent to, some love it, and has gained them some subs while also costing them subs and who knows how many more potential subs? Or do you think they should accept that this has been a pretty big miss for a decent part of the player base that is also offering them a chance to make it right and most of us are even saying it's fine to take the next two years to make that happen. Compared to how other companies in the industry are facing huge backlashes over botched announcements, we are being pretty chill and giving them the time and feedback on how to make things right by us. It's up to them to try to get us back on board or not but if they don't then I wonder if they will come to regret it in years to come especially if limited jobs don't work out and/or they face backlash over other things in the future. Maybe they will feel that they chose wrong in this moment.