Late to the BLU Party

[Alleo]

How many of those solo experiences are still part of the multiplayer aspect of the game? For crafting/gathering, unless you're exclusively doing that stuff for yourself and that is without buying things or running group content to get mats, you're still doing multi-player things.

Even buying something off the MB is interacting with others.

Yeah its really strange to compare gatherers and crafters to something that would have been a normal battle job.

Blue to the battle jobs is more like a new crafter class that unlike other crafter classes can only produce a small amount of things for the person itself and since its also locked at lvl 50 it cant create even something useful for the person too. No raid gear to craft, no gil to make because you can only do stuff for yourself and next to some unique glamour items that you only need to do once because you cant sell them you will have nothing great to do with it. Would kinda feel useless too imo.

Not to mention, iconic spells like 1000 Needles would be virtually useless in an endgame setting. There would be a ton of "Congratulations on learning this spell you're never gonna use!" going around. At least the system currently being formulated *seems* to make it so you'll have a use for what you can learn.

So instead now you can use that iconic spell against low level trash monsters and maybe some old dungeon bosses which would melt anyway if you run it unsynch and you could use it in the carnival (if the monster even can be defeated with it). I wonder when the awe of it will decline because you will just use it like any new spell anyway. Also having it as a normal job in content would not mean that it would be boring outside of it too. So you can still watch your needle spell in solo content while those that want it in content even with some restriction can also enjoy it there. Win Win imo. (I have seen nobody ever stating that they want the extra side content for its done, just that they can use it in other content too)

[jon041065]

That would defeat the entire concept of hunting down enemy skills, and there would be no reason at all for it to be a limited job.

Edited due to stupid daily post limit:


No, it would. If you need to learn your abilities in a certain order to maintain some kind of rotation, then it's just standard job quests with an RNG success rate, and nobody would enjoy that.

It's at complete odds with what they've sought to achieve, and give that they've implied no two Blue mages will have the same skills, at least before they've learned them all, then I think it's incredibly unlikely this is the case.
If there's a rotation, or skills have to be learned in a certain order, then the whole limited job thing is utterly pointless.

I didn't say specific order. I said maybe there are some spells that will be very easy to learn and those could make up the rotation. We don't know if there is something like that or not. Also, you only speak for yourself. Myself and it seems quite a few others wouldn't have a problem with a job that has barriers to entry like in that quote from Mibgestalt. That would be something different and new so would mean it would be great right? That seems to be a defense for limited jobs.

A lot of us do think limited jobs are utterly pointless. I don't recall them saying "no two blue mages will have the same skills" and that's a pretty absurd notion. There will be plenty that learn most if not all the spells. What they seemed to what to achieve was to give the people asking for open world and other forms of content what they want while also shoehorning in blue mage to get those of us that have been asking for blue mage to finally stop. This version satisfies some that have been asking for the job but obviously it's not enough for a lot of us. Instead of "can we get blue mage?" it will be "can you make blue mage a full job?".

[Andevom]

Yeah its really strange to compare gatherers and crafters to something that would have been a normal battle job.

Blue to the battle jobs is more like a new crafter class that unlike other crafter classes can only produce a small amount of things for the person itself and since its also locked at lvl 50 it cant create even something useful for the person too. No raid gear to craft, no gil to make because you can only do stuff for yourself and next to some unique glamour items that you only need to do once because you cant sell them you will have nothing great to do with it. Would kinda feel useless too imo.

Again, all I was arguing against was the claim that solo experiences have no place in an MMORPG. I pointed to something that has a place and is a solo experience (one that does not require partying up to progress in), which is Crafter/Gatherer Jobs. Maybe Limited Jobs will similarly feel like they have a proper place once we have them. We just don't know, but I'd like to see it at least attempted.

So instead now you can use that iconic spell against low level trash monsters and maybe some old dungeon bosses which would melt anyway if you run it unsynch and you could use it in the carnival (if the monster even can be defeated with it). I wonder when the awe of it will decline because you will just use it like any new spell anyway. Also having it as a normal job in content would not mean that it would be boring outside of it too. So you can still watch your needle spell in solo content while those that want it in content even with some restriction can also enjoy it there. Win Win imo. (I have seen nobody ever stating that they want the extra side content for its done, just that they can use it in other content too)

The awe of anything starts to decline once you've done it enough, for most people anyway. Everything is just speculation, but the impression *I* get is that the Carnival will make these spells useful outside of just killing random mobs with it. Something you can actively put the diverse spells to good use in. There's just too much unknown, and I can't demonize what's been proposed until I've seen it in action, simply because "it's not a DoM". If it sucks when it comes out, I'll fully admit it's bad. I'm sorry I, personally, am excited for what it is. I've nothing else to really say on the matter anymore.

[jon041065]

Maybe Limited Jobs will similarly feel like they have a proper place once we have them. We just don't know, but I'd like to see it at least attempted.

Have you played WoW recently? That game started down the path of having too many pieces of content separated from the main game and they kept adding/replacing them as new expacs came out. Now, they have to almost force players to use that type of content in order to justify making it. Ask how many people playing BFA if they enjoy isle expeditions. Then ask how many are just running them because they feel they have to in order to keep their neck level up to date.

FFXIV already has pve/pvp/crafting and gathering/various minigames/various pieces of side content to either keep working on or just leave to wither and die. Do you want the game to be basically a closet of board games and you just pull one out and play with it a bit before putting it back and bringing out another game to play with? What happens if/when SE feels they have to put something so important behind one of these board games that most players feel compelled to play them? I understand that's how some players have felt about the game so far (makes me wonder why they are still playing but I digress) and most on our side support there being fun forms of content meant for the solo player and open world. We don't think that should come with the price tag of "new job that is highly requested has to be restricted to this new content and out of date content" in order for those types of players to get something they want.

[JunseiKei]

I don't quite understand. People complain FFXIV needs to create new things and shake up the current, repetitive formula. BLU's design may be intending for that, yet it's being complained about before we even really have all of the information/clarifications.

Let it come out and try it before you preemptively get your panties in twists.

[jon041065]

I don't quite understand. People complain FFXIV needs to create new things and shake up the current, repetitive formula. BLU's design may be intending for that, yet it's being complained about before we even really have all of the information/clarifications.

Let it come out and try it before you preemptively get your panties in twists.

1. Not everyone asking for blue mage was also asking for things to be shaken up.
2. Just because it's different doesn't automatically make it good.

There have been very few people on our side saying that they think doing things for the open world and the Carnival content were a waste of time and resources. Most of us have said we have no problems with the Carnival and actually hope it does well and content like it would be expanded or at least a form of it for all jobs. We are against a job having these types of restrictions especially when we think the reasons given for it are very poor. New content is fine but a new job that's in its own little box that is pushed into the corner of the game is bad and will possibly be forgotten as it collects dust. Especially when that new job is as requested as blue mage.

[JunseiKei]

1. Not everyone asking for blue mage was also asking for things to be shaken up.
2. Just because it's different doesn't automatically make it good.

There have been very few people on our side saying that they think doing things for the open world and the Carnival content were a waste of time and resources. Most of us have said we have no problems with the Carnival and actually hope it does well and content like it would be expanded or at least a form of it for all jobs. We are against a job having these types of restrictions especially when we think the reasons given for it are very poor. New content is fine but a new job that's in its own little box that is pushed into the corner of the game is bad and will possibly be forgotten as it collects dust. Especially when that new job is as requested as blue mage.

No one said to not use a job for testing, either. If anything, new jobs seems to be one of the things that pulls players in consistently the most in this game.

If it's different, it doesn't automatically make it bad either. Innovation would never happen if that were the case.

That's why you wait for content to come out and try it. Right now, all I see is conflicting information surrounding the class and a lot of people already taking things as the worst possible outcome.

[jon041065]

No one said to not use a job for testing, either.

If it's different, it doesn't automatically make it bad either.

That's why you wait for content to come out and try it. Right now, all I see is conflicting information surrounding the class and a lot of people already taking things as the worst possible outcome.

It could have been a bad presentation and they didn't state that it was a testing phase but we are complaining about part of what they did tell us. Specifically, one slide and the reasons given that it has to be that way.



We are against this. The fact is that it could have amazing and challenging solo content but that wouldn't make up for the inability to play the job in current content with our friends. Hopefully that will change.

[JunseiKei]

It could have been a bad presentation and they didn't state that it was a testing phase but we are complaining about part of what they did tell us. Specifically, one slide and the reasons given that it has to be that way.



We are against this. The fact is that it could have amazing and challenging solo content but that wouldn't make up for the inability to play the job in current content with our friends. Hopefully that will change.

That's very limited information to have this much hate against it. Reading just that slide, "designed for solo play" and "not suited for parties" comes off to me as many abilities may be locked out of group play. Not suited for parties does not entail full exclusion. I know the class is locked to level 50 for now, which will be raised in the future. My guess to that is to adjust the job according to feedback and see how things scale from there (one thing I can tell you, FFXIV's scaling is not the best, but the other games I've played have none, so my perception is a bit skewed).

Just like I know there's some quote I've vaguely read/heard of Yoshida (maybe even someone else) talking about death possibly 1-shotting bosses (which may even be hyperbole - we don't know yet!). Without knowing the full context of the remark because of how very little information has been presented, this could mean a number of things (including, but not limited to: making sure abilities that are marked to not having access to in certain content cannot be made available through means like pomanders, squadron's ungarmax and scholar's ability to resummon their fairy while under dissipation; making sure checks to are in place that an under-abilitied BLU cannot be carried through content because they did not do enough things to unlock enough abilities to maintain a rotation; testing rotations for damage if they were ever planned to be allowed into current content).

Like I've been trying to say, we literally don't have enough information. It's fine to be cautious, but there's still a difference between caution and pessimism.

[jon041065]

That's very limited information to have this much hate against it. Reading just that slide, "designed for solo play" and "not suited for parties" comes off to me as many abilities may be locked out of group play. Not suited for parties does not entail full exclusion. I know the class is locked to level 50 for now, which will be raised in the future. My guess to that is to adjust the job according to feedback and see how things scale from there (one thing I can tell you, FFXIV's scaling is not the best, but the other games I've played have none, so my perception is a bit skewed).

Just like I know there's some quote I've vaguely read/heard of Yoshida (maybe even someone else) talking about death possibly 1-shotting bosses (which may even be hyperbole - we don't know yet!). Without knowing the full context of the remark because of how very little information has been presented, this could mean a number of things (including, but not limited to: making sure abilities that are marked to not having access to in certain content cannot be made available through means like pomanders, squadron's ungarmax and scholar's ability to resummon their fairy while under dissipation; making sure checks to are in place that an under-abilitied BLU cannot be carried through content because they did not do enough things to unlock enough abilities to maintain a rotation; testing rotations for damage if they were ever planned to be allowed into current content).

Like I've been trying to say, we literally don't have enough information. It's fine to be cautious, but there's still a difference between caution and pessimism.

They said they didn't want to limit abilities after giving the lvl 5 Death example. That they considered limitations but decided that would be "less fun". The backlash is mostly an attempt at changing their minds.

Go listen to the part about blue mage from the live letter. It was uploaded to the FFXIV youtube channel yesterday. We are responding to what they said and had in the slides.