What exactly IS a White Mage?

[AleXwern]

My biggest gripe with WHM is how it generates tank levels of enmity along how the other 2 is just all around more comfy for the party (pets healing, natural dumps in Sects).
I did some calculations some time ago. This doesn't (hopefully) happen in any realistic situation but let's roll some numbers for a while. Because of +healing traits and natural higher cast strength due to being a caster, a Cure III spam on 8 people will generate so much aggro it's straight up impossible to keep up as (any) tank even if you solely spammed aggro combo in tank stance.
Butcher's Block generates 2100 aggro as a finisher. Whole combo generates average of ~2400 per cast with Defiance counted in.
8-man Cure III generates 2200 aggro (550potency x 8party x 0.5aggro multiplier)
WAR wins by small amount, right? Now go check traits and compare weapon damages and we now have WHM winning by a mile.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

My biggest gripe with WHM is how it generates tank levels of enmity along how the other 2 is just all around more comfy for the party (pets healing, natural dumps in Sects).

There's something ironic about WHMs strongest spell, and what devs seemingly deem so powerful it needs no utility, will outright get you killed.

I mean so many people throws out the argument that WHM is the beginner healer, yet Cure III is the hardest of the burst aoes to use. If people aren't stacked, you won't hit them. If you use it too often you'll die. You miss even a single DPS, you might as well just have used Medica because you're going to lose way more time single healing the people you missed.
Compared to SCH and ASTs "press this button to heal everything" abilities.

[tinythinker]

My reply got too long so I put it here.

Short version:

I get it. At end-game WHM needs to be seen as unique, interesting, or competitive, if not all three. But do most players really do any (significant) end-game? Lots of great ideas are out there, but for me it would be "How do I imagine the class fantasy?" first, then build the uniqueness, interesting features, and competitive edge around that.

If I recall, WHM is supposed to druid-lite blended with a kind of angelic holy priest-type. Draw aether from the land to balance, revive, and protect. Have a care that you don't take more than you need before the land can replenish it. Etc. Don't have to be total slaves to that image, but it's the starting point.

Basically, WHM keeps having its unique stuff made into role actions because that stuff is too good and all healers "need it" because there are players of all skill levels that want to play all healer jobs. Yet AST get cards right away. SCH has a fairy right away. WHM gets lililes at lvl 52. Cards and fairy's are interactive and do cool things, are always useful. Not so for lilies.

So, I would look at adding lilies when you unlock the job (unless I missed it and they added that already). But why lilies? The nature aspect? OK, that's fine. But unless I'm even more forgetful or oblivious than I think I am, I don't recall any cool lily animations. A spectral lily blooming at the WHMs feet (or of other players), ethereal lily blossoms falling from above, etc.

As for what lilies can do, have a Secret of the Lily I, and II, and three III. SotL I is for level 30 when you get the job crystal. The others can stay the same for level of unlocking. That means lilies need to be interesting and useful from level 30 onward in at least some small way. And they need to have an animation effect other players can see.

Again, should it be a better cool-down reduction? For the caster or also allies? A healing buff? For the caster or also allies? A damage buff for the caster? Or also allies? Maybe a buff specifically to tank-only damage or mitigation abilities? Who knows? Again, I'm sure lots of players have a ton of ideas about how lilies could add some fun for WHM. There are pages and pages and pages of "They should have lilies do X" posts.

But when you stretch it back down to those just starting off as WHM rather than just "How can we compare and compete at end-game?", the question "What is a White Mage?" takes on a different dimension.

If they added lily animations and started the gauge at 30, does that change how you would want them to work? Either way, how would this work out if you had your way?

[HyperiusUltima]

If they added lily animations and started the gauge at 30, does that change how you would want them to work? Either way, how would this work out if you had your way?

If you changed Lily to be accessed at 30, that would have a few issues. Job Gauges are there, but for healers WHM's isn't active until 52. AST's is always active(Lv 30, but is mainly there for keeping track of what cards you have). SCH's isn't active until Lv 70.

If you try and tack on WHM's Lilies early on that will also screw up how earlier dungeons were balanced. In regards to what a WHM is, it's...a bit wonky in my opinion. Once you start into the whole Taint Saga, everything is kinda weird since they divert from what some of their CNJ story shows them to be instead of having some connection to it.

[tinythinker]

If you changed Lily to be accessed at 30, that would have a few issues. Job Gauges are there, but for healers WHM's isn't active until 52. AST's is always active(Lv 30, but is mainly there for keeping track of what cards you have). SCH's isn't active until Lv 70.

If you try and tack on WHM's Lilies early on that will also screw up how earlier dungeons were balanced. In regards to what a WHM is, it's...a bit wonky in my opinion. Once you start into the whole Taint Saga, everything is kinda weird since they divert from what some of their CNJ story shows them to be instead of having some connection to it.

Lilies don't have to be OP or unbalanced at lower levels. And don't SCH have the basic Aetherflow gauge at 30?

Lilies can just be worked into more or less how earlier WHM abilities already function. Doesn't have to be the whole cool-down thing that comes later. In fact, nothing about lilies has to be the same as it is now at any level.

It would make more sense to get some gauge like other healers at 30, and for that gauge to indicate something important for WHMs to track or to have some impact on gameplay. Even if that impact is very minor at levels 30-50. Same for having lily-related animations. They would add more to the feel of the job and could start at 30 as well.

Just having lilies show up decades of levels later for some highly situational passive effects with no visible effect outside of the gauge is confusing at best and lame at worst.

How it works into core of the job, and how it related to making WHMs stand out, is something others can debate.

[CorbinDallas]

If you changed Lily to be accessed at 30, that would have a few issues.

If you try and tack on WHM's Lilies early on that will also screw up how earlier dungeons were balanced.

Lillies at level 30, in their current iteration, will do the exact same thing as they do at level 70. Nothing.

Another thing, Scholars have a gauge as early as level 6.

[zuzu-bq]

Giving WHM a proper 68 trait would be cool.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Lillies at level 30, in their current iteration, will do the exact same thing as they do at level 70. Nothing.

Another thing, Scholars have a gauge as early as level 6.

Even disregarding what lilies could possibly do at an early level (which is as you said, absolutely nothing), we might as well throw early healer balance out the window because SCH can straight out afk heal dungeons until Stone Vigil.

Whatever lilies could ever possibly achieve at an earlier level, it won't beat that.

[Johaandr]

I like whm the way it is. It only lack Flood and eartquake

[miraidensetsu]

I like whm the way it is. It only lack Flood and eartquake

The way it is, I would prefer WHM getting Flood, Quake, Tornado and Ultima, exchange Cure II for Water II, Fluid Aura for Water, take off some healing skills and add DPS tools and an actual DPS rotation. And exchange healing buffs for DPS buffs.

And exchange the role from Healer to Magic Ranged DPS.