Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[Kabooa]

The entire argument of "its my favorite class, I always dreamed of going into DF with it and raid endgame with my friends"... is just ugh, please, its free content you are receiving. Take it, enjoy it, don't act like the sky is falling. There is no need to compromise at this point since you don't know how it will play out.

There will be players who will enjoy this content even if it never catches up to max level. Just like with Eureka. If this kind of content doesn't appeal to you, well honestly try something different or go play BLU in a previous installment of the FF series where it was as you envisioned it to be.

In a subscription game, nothing is free content.

This argument doesn't fly.

[jon041065]

The problem is the class is designed towards grinding creature X for a while to learn its monster skill, if BLU goes into DF they would ask 3 other people to slow down to "help" them obtain a certain skill. And in ARR content you pretty much just melt mobs mind. Hence it can be both frustrating for the party and BLU, even going to the point of just leaving after the required monsters are all dead or asking to be kicked. This would happen, people want it all the "fast" way. It would simply create unnecessary drama and taxation's on players that just want to get their roulette done, which can all be avoided by locking the BLU mage out of dungeon finder and forcing them into PF so people know what they are going to join for.

So it's better for SE to kick a blu player instead of it being up to the party? So what if the blu player states they are trying to learn a spell. Most enemies wont melt that fast that they wont be able to get at least one move off. Maybe the blu player does learn the spell and it can be like how it was on XI when you learned something while in a party and the others tell you "that's awesome congrats!". The only way your point makes some sense to me is like how some players ask in older ARR dungeons to go after chests that are not on the main path. Should we remove those or just prevent matchmaking for those dungeons because of those chests? Or should we say that people should try to be adults and come to an agreement or just deal with it if they can't? I"ve been in plenty of parties where those of us that wanted the chests went back and eventually got to them.

And lvl 50 max BLU mage in DF would simply become like a swarm of locusts, you'd rarely get an instance from SB or HW.

So, should we just take out all instanced content out of the game because queues might be too long? What is this!? A valid point for ants!? It's so so small.

The entire argument of "its my favorite class, I always dreamed of going into DF with it and raid endgame with my friends"... is just ugh, please, its free content you are receiving. Take it, enjoy it, don't act like the sky is falling. There is no need to compromise at this point since you don't know how it will play out.

There will be players who will enjoy this content even if it never catches up to max level. Just like with Eureka. If this kind of content doesn't appeal to you, well honestly try something different or go play BLU in a previous installment of the FF series where it was as you envisioned it to be.

I'ts not free content. All of us are paying for the content. It is/was very important to some of us to be able to main blue mage in the entire game. Your main job is your chosen tool in how you interact with the game so yeah it's a big deal to people on my side. And right now is the perfect time to give feed back on the aspect of "not meant for group play" aspect of limited jobs. We don't have to test it or see what kind of content SE will add UNLESS it's "we are going to make it a full job with the data we get from you all testing the job like this."

"If this kind of content doesn't appeal to you" That sounds like an argument that could have been used against people saying the game has grown stale without something like this. Same with "go play BLU in a previous installment" for people that ONLY want this version. Barely anyone on my side is asking for the "Carnival/FFV blue mage" and the content it's tied to be removed. SE absolutely should be trying to get to a middle ground. Most players are more than likely neutral on the whole thing. They will play the blu content and then put it down till there's an update for it. Then for us that are vocal about it, things seem pretty 50/50 split? You think SE will continue to add content to blu and work on other limited jobs if most players just play it as the side game that it is and then even more are boycotting/unsubbing over it? You rather bet on this working and potentially it being dumped like Diadem instead of supporting a path to some middle ground?

[Darkpaw]

It’s not black and white. You are sitting here saying it’s either your way of getting a middle ground and getting your way or blindly accepting it for what it is. That’s not what we are saying. We are saying experience it. Like what do you not get about this?

Oh this is the perfect time. No it’s not. You have very little information, you have no clue what the intent is for the future. You are basing an entire argument on an emotional response and fear of a worst case scenario.

But hey you know what if you are this upset over a game company trying to innovate and grow their product in new ways even briefly feel free to do what you feel you must. Set the forums on fire, unsub. Do what you got to do. I’m not going to completely write off a game for trying something different. If I like it I’ll let the dev team know. If I don’t like it. I’ll let the dev team know. When I have verifiable facts and personal experience

[Kitfox]

You have very little information, you have no clue what the intent is for the future.

This is all the information I need to be upset.

[jon041065]

This is all the information I need to be upset.

Exactly this. Experiencing the blu content won't change our minds on this issue. Perhaps the info and slides were wrong or this is a beta phase but that's about all of us that are upset see in the "wait and see" argument. I've asked for people that say this to color it in for us that "don't understand" the point of waiting as if something will blow us away enough to give up on the thought of having blu as our main in the full game. They haven't produced anything yet. /shrug

And before anyone comes in saying "well you're just assuming the worse etc etc", I've already said that maybe it was a bad presentation or they just didn't announce it as a "beta" for whatever reason. They should get going with the damage control if that's the case then.

[Darkpaw]

I'm going to point out something.. yet again. We were not going to get blue mage. Period. There have been several interviews done about blue mage where Yoshi P has stated they were never sure how to implement it and it was extremely unlikely we were ever going to get it.

They strove hard to find a way to provide the blue mage experience for us. Even in this "limited job" capacity. Giving us new type of content (something we've been asking for), new ways to prog (something else we've been asking for) showing that they have interest in expanding the open world content (oh wait.. something else we've been asking for) a job we were never supposed to have in the way the dev teams envisioned giving it to us. (for better or worse it's happening. don't like it.. do the same as many in this community told machinists when they tried setting these forums on fire with problems with their job. Go play something else.), opening the door the dev team had previous shut on other jobs (puppet master and beast tamer), trying to be more original and experimental with the stuff they do (once again something this community has begged them to do) all while giving it a true final fantasy feel. and... "nope it's garbage, we hate it because we can't raid with it." so. yea

As for me saying wait and see. It was never about the job blowing you away. It was about having FACT and EXPERIENCE with the content to actually fill in and utilize as constructive criticism to further your original goal. It's common bloody sense. You can make up your mind but making the argument that "this would be the easiest job in the world to balance in end game." is woefully underinformed and speculative at best. Because you don't know how it functions in this game now. You don't know how the skills in this game are going to function right now. What I'm saying what I've been saying. Get that information then if you want to write a document, post on forums about how it could easily be balanced in raid with the skills and abilities it has in the game with minor changes.. DO IT. Hell I'll support you even. I'll read your document give you feedback on your ideas to help tweak it if needed or just outright tell the dev team this is a good idea they should really look into this. That's all. Not saying let it change your mind. Be open to the possibility of some aspects of blue mage being good but by in large stay true to your beliefs just come back with REASON based arguments and facts based on YOUR own experience with the job to support your side! It's easy to say you hate something before you even try it but if you play it and can say.. "Okay here's what they did well, here's the abilities I like, here's the abilities I think are over powered or underpowered, here's the concepts you put in that were okay or could be better with some tweaks, and here's what I didn't like and I didn't think worked and my ideas for possible solutions." you'd get a lot further and a lot less pushback.

[BoazJochin]

FFXIV is an MMORPG. So why is BLU being restricted from joining mainstream content and pushed as "solo-content" orientated? If I wanted to play an extensive solo-player experience with collecting blue magic, the previous offline titles exist for that purpose.

"BLU has to have certain skills, and it'd be no fun if they didn't work against raid bosses!"

You know what's even less fun? Not being able to participate in said raids to begin with. It isn't worth having those skills if those skills are the reason we are being "limited." No one in their right mind had the expectation that we needed lvl5 death, and that we had to make it work on the latest raid bosses.

"But if BLU is accepted and doesn't have the skills they're expected to have, they'll be kicked "

Is it so hard to implement a requirement for number of skills BLU must have in order to enter an instance? A rebuttal to this suggestion would entail that perhaps a certain BLU might only have buff/support spells, and not enough DPS skills. To that I say "classify spells for their function and specify a number of DPS-oriented spells needed to enter roulette."

People who care enough to go into Savage are the same ones who will care enough to get their "core skills" to perform correctly. Why are we killing the opportunity for your consumer base in order to appease a strawman argument of a bad player?

People wanted BLU in this game. People, like myself, would have been more than happy with simple job quests making us go on some silly hunt to "learn" skills if it meant being streamlined into the general population.

I can even accept grinding in the overworld like we're in some cheap pay-to-win Korean MMO, I can even accept being forced to learn skills on an RNG basis and hunting monsters for them, but allow us the option to play with everyone else in the content everyone is doing! Because after all, this is not a solo game-- This is an MMORPG.

SE, I implore you to reconsider.

Why not start it at level 1 so the playerbase can learn to play the character and then learn the required skills.

[Mithia]

In a subscription game, nothing is free content.

This argument doesn't fly.

You pay for access to the servers, not the content. If you don't pay for a subscription, the content will still get released.

So it's better for SE to kick a blu player instead of it being up to the party? So what if the blu player states they are trying to learn a spell. Most enemies wont melt that fast that they wont be able to get at least one move off. Maybe the blu player does learn the spell and it can be like how it was on XI when you learned something while in a party and the others tell you "that's awesome congrats!".

The way it was explained in the live letter, the enemy has to use the ability first.
So if it gets stunned/silenced(?) or just dies before the mob can use the ability, you won't be able to have a chance at learning the ability.

The BLU player however can state all he wants. And if I have time I may take the time to help him out and slowly wait for the mob to use the specific ability before killing it. However its not up to the BLU player to dictate where the party should go just because he is BLU and needs to learn a skill. Maybe he needs a very specific enemy that is in a corner of the dungeon where we don't have to go.
And by opening DF to BLU players you will come to said problem over and over again, do we help the BLU or not. And I feel players shouldn't be obliged to help the BLU players who are skill hunting, the players are just there for the rewards/exp/MSQ.

The only way your point makes some sense to me is like how some players ask in older ARR dungeons to go after chests that are not on the main path. Should we remove those or just prevent matchmaking for those dungeons because of those chests? Or should we say that people should try to be adults and come to an agreement or just deal with it if they can't? I"ve been in plenty of parties where those of us that wanted the chests went back and eventually got to them.

That is cool, you can do it after the dungeon is complete and the players who want to leave can. But you shouldn't feel entitled that players have to help the BLU.

The problem however still is, I have seen the mentality over and over again that players get what they need out of a place and then just leave. Think dog/bird/horse farming.

I mean, imagen you come to the mobs that the BLU needs, one person doesn't speak English so he didn't understand what the BLU was asking for. Mob gets killed, BLU throws a tantrum and he votes to kick the guy who is clueless on what he may have done wrong. And after the guy gets kicked, the BLU leaves because he can't be bothered and might as well re-queue.

An extreme example perhaps, but I see these examples in different scenario's at least once a week.

So why shouldn't SE try to think of a solution to address this toxic behavior? Especially because party communication is so critical to the BLU skills, might as well just let them pf where they can party up with the people THEY agreed to queue with.

So, should we just take out all instanced content out of the game because queues might be too long? What is this!? A valid point for ants!? It's so so small.

No but it will be every run the same thing "Hi can you guys help me with mob X, kthx"
And in addition its not about queue's being to long. Its about the running the same instances over and over again. Some like their diversity, its not a case of a new class just using dungeons to level up. Its about a class hunting for skills over and over again in low level content which may not be attractive to run.

I'ts not free content. All of us are paying for the content. It is/was very important to some of us to be able to main blue mage in the entire game. Your main job is your chosen tool in how you interact with the game so yeah it's a big deal to people on my side. And right now is the perfect time to give feed back on the aspect of "not meant for group play" aspect of limited jobs. We don't have to test it or see what kind of content SE will add UNLESS it's "we are going to make it a full job with the data we get from you all testing the job like this."

You don't pay for the content, you pay to access the content. You paying or not for your sub doesn't mean the content will be released or not.

The game never launched with BLU as a Job, so it was just you guys wishing for it to happen, but, it didn't happen as you desired it to be. Now you are throwing a tantrum without even trying it out first. Completely forgetting about the players who have been advocating for classes that are true to their lore/design. And not a shadow of what they once were. For some players the solo class seem to be a very fun thing to try out.

Personally I enjoy crafting, however I can't use my crafters either to run the MSQ or DF.

"If this kind of content doesn't appeal to you" That sounds like an argument that could have been used against people saying the game has grown stale without something like this. Same with "go play BLU in a previous installment" for people that ONLY want this version. Barely anyone on my side is asking for the "Carnival/FFV blue mage" and the content it's tied to be removed. SE absolutely should be trying to get to a middle ground. Most players are more than likely neutral on the whole thing. They will play the blu content and then put it down till there's an update for it. Then for us that are vocal about it, things seem pretty 50/50 split? You think SE will continue to add content to blu and work on other limited jobs if most players just play it as the side game that it is and then even more are boycotting/unsubbing over it? You rather bet on this working and potentially it being dumped like Diadem instead of supporting a path to some middle ground?

But you don't want a middle ground. You want to compromise on the FFV BLU mage design by asking it to be balanced for dungeons/raids with a party.

I'm quite sure that SE continues what they started with. Look at Eureka, 4th installment and the end of the relic weapon is in sight. While it was unpopular to some, it was also enjoyed by others. And that is fine, not everyone has to like all content. There is alot to do in FFXIV. Diadem wasn't enjoyable, but that can happen, they received the feedback and they adjusted things. Wasn't exactly spot on but the second installment was less of a pain then the first.

But again, you don't want a middle ground, because its either to stick true to the design of FFV or get a class like the SMN. And you would prefer the later is what I'm getting.

[Kabooa]

You pay for access to the servers, not the content. If you don't pay for a subscription, the content will still get released.

Well look at that, mates, turns out DLC isn't something you pay for because -it still gets released-.

You aren't paying for content, you're paying for -access- to that content!

What a !@#%ing visionary.

[Mithia]

Well look at that, mates, turns out DLC isn't something you pay for because -it still gets released-.

You aren't paying for content, you're paying for -access- to that content!

What a !@#%ing visionary.

Yup, you pay for the DLC, but BLU isn't a part of the DLC.