this is an MMO SquareEnix

[Darkpaw]

If I were to take Summoner next expansion, and say "it's limited. You aren't allowed to use any matchmaking or any content past HW, but you can now summon many different summons at full size!"
We'd all know it's a bad idea, we don't need to play that to know that's not a fun sounding idea.

That's a false equivalence at best. You're talking about taking a full job we've had since 2.0 and putting it in this limited system.. this is not an equivalent exchange.. we have never had blue mage.. and were constantly told we would never get blue mage because Yoshi P wanted a traditional blue mage in this game and he felt it was what fans wanted as well and he gave us exactly that. So we got something we were never going to get before, in the way they have always told us they wanted to implement it, and we're getting it earlier than anyone thought we would, but oh no the sky is falling.

[Flatopia]

That's a false equivalence at best. You're talking about taking a full job we've had since 2.0 and putting it in this limited system.. this is not an equivalent exchange.. we have never had blue mage.. and were constantly told we would never get blue mage because Yoshi P wanted a traditional blue mage in this game and he felt it was what fans wanted as well and he gave us exactly that. So we got something we were never going to get before, in the way they have always told us they wanted to implement it, and we're getting it earlier than anyone thought we would, but oh no the sky is falling.

okay fine, then.
Gunblade job.
It's only usable in garlemald and not allowed in instanced duties.
Good, yes?

[Darkpaw]

okay fine, then.
Gunblade job.
It's only usable in garlemald and not allowed in instanced duties.
Good, yes?

No, because Blue is allowed in instanced duties... it's not allowed in matchmaking duties and pvp and deep dungeon.. so lets look at this and I know this will be shocking, with some rationale thought and logic. Starting with what we know about BLU and it's role in the limited job system.

1./ At implementation (4.5) BLU will be started at level 1 and capped at level 50.
2./ It's vertical prog will be based in the open world (lvl'ing) It's horizontal prog (abilities) will also be based there as well as in instanced duties and it is encouraged to work with other players to share information on ability locations.
3./It is currently locked out of duty roulettes, pvp, and deep dungeon. As well as current end game content.
4./ It will have it's level cap increased via patches as well as have new abilities.

Now I'm going to focus on number 3 which is the source of all of this. Why is it locked out of duty roulettes. Because it would be a nightmare to create a system atop everything else they are doing that could verify skills earned before allowing you to queue up for duties with match made parties. (I've made the argument a thousand times of how this job can and will be a nightmare to balance. It's just fact. Whether you like it or not.) It's locked out of PvP which is also fairly obvious as to why. Why is it currently locked out of end game content. That's the big question. Well it's a new job that functions in a much different way then the others. With a progression system vastly different then the others. So players need to have some time to adjust and get used to it and all of the new abilities and find out builds and what not. So why level 50? Because it's OLD content that is useful for experimentation and breaking without upsetting the majority of the player base. You all seem to think that this will never change. That's really pessimistic at best since they have admitted to wanting to add classes like beast tamer and puppet master to this system. That's literally the extent of what we know about this limited job system.. and you have all the info you need to prejudge it? wow you must be clairvoyant or something because that's hardly any information at all to pass judgement. Thank god you aren't a judge in real life trying a death penalty case. That poor sod would get the needle based on opening arguments from the prosecutor without even giving the defense a chance to present a case.

[Flatopia]

No, because Blue is allowed in instanced duties... it's not allowed in matchmaking duties and pvp and deep dungeon.. so lets look at this and I know this will be shocking, with some rationale thought and logic. Starting with what we know about BLU and it's role in the limited job system.

1./ At implementation (4.5) BLU will be started at level 1 and capped at level 50.
2./ It's vertical prog will be based in the open world (lvl'ing) It's horizontal prog (abilities) will also be based there as well as in instanced duties and it is encouraged to work with other players to share information on ability locations.
3./It is currently locked out of duty roulettes, pvp, and deep dungeon. As well as current end game content.
4./ It will have it's level cap increased via patches as well as have new abilities.

Now I'm going to focus on number 3 which is the source of all of this. Why is it locked out of duty roulettes. Because it would be a nightmare to create a system atop everything else they are doing that could verify skills earned before allowing you to queue up for duties with match made parties. (I've made the argument a thousand times of how this job can and will be a nightmare to balance. It's just fact.

is it a fact?
I mean the assets are there. In terms of developer additions it would be the implementation of the actual job itself using moves with changed values and properties, whatever UI element which would be like, a meter at most, the graphic to switch modes, and um. The text logs for it?
There's no good reason why in the expansion after ShB they couldn't add a separate mode in which to play BLU as a legit job since it is, for the most part, in the game and would require minimal implementation to earn a massive chunk of goodwill and make everyone happy.
To say "it's a nightmare to balance" is silly. Is any other job? If they chose a well designed functional job that used it's assets of monster abilities it will have/already has, then that's so much effort just taken away from making a new job. It's easier on the team at this point to actually make a new job. To argue against the idea of adding a regular job on top of this is ludicrous.
No one is asking to enter modern content with wild moves, or broken stats, or a fully customizable kit- we want a regular job alongside the rest of them alongside this content they are adding. At this point it's a point of simply "why not?" over why.

[Darkpaw]

Well given the fact that we can't even balance the jobs we have now. We have a ranged physical dps competing for slots in parties with CASTERS. That would imply they have a big enough nightmare balancing the classes we have now. Go ahead go through the forums, go through reddit, see all the complaints of how tanks aren't balanced and never really are, healers aren't balanced and never really are, dps aren't balanced and never really are.. WE CANT BALANCE THE CLASSES WE HAVE NOW. So sure lets throw on another job right off the bat with all these new systems that the dev team aren't even sure how many other issues they're going to have to fix and balance.. with a system that can read what all abilities we can have so we can have convenience of matchmaking.. and throwing another caster that will boil down to the same basic equation.. fill a job specific resource.. release a big boom attack.. rinse, repeat that will eventually after the novelty wears off feel the exact same as the other three do.. because THAT WILL FIX THE BALANCE ISSUES we currently have.. like jesus.. did this blue mage announcement come out and just make everyone forget THAT JOB BALANCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE! They have had a hard time balancing SAMURAI this entire EXPANSION with all sorts of buffs.. hell they can't even figure out machinist.. but yes.. lets give them the task of trying to find a way to balance a blue mage while still making it feel like a blue mage to appease everyone because if it doesn't oooo boy we're still going to set the forums on fire.. this kind of crap.. is the whole basis of the argument that gamers are entitled. "We didn't get what we want but we know what we want can work because we just know." have you coded a job for an mmorpg? have you specifically created one from conception throw programming, animation, regular job balance, raid job balance, trial job balance, alliance raid balance, solo instance balance, and deep dungeon balance.. while still keeping in mind open world content and have it fit nice and neatly among 15 other jobs? you can speculate that this is the easiest thing in the world but the amount of time, effort, precision, attention to detail, troubleshooting, and any other issue would be incredible and they cant do it for the 15 jobs they have now.. so yes lets make a completely original take on blue mage that really will just feel like another standard caster with no real flavor past the initial release of it because the players know all.. and have made up their minds before even playing it.. like really? really?

oh and the whole there's no reason they can't for ShB argument.. how do you friggen know what they are doing with BLU in ShB?! YOU DONT! THATS THE POINT! you're afraid and freaking out on the basis of NOTHING. because we don't have the information to even attempt to make an educated guess.. like how much more basic do I need to spell it out. WE DO NOT KNOW. Error 404 file does not exist. I'm sorry, but the princess you seek is in another dungeon. Speculating on fear and worst case scenarios is asinine. It's like seeing the boogeyman that doesn't exist yet! hell tomorrow we could all be blown up by a nuclear weapon.. so lets throw all civility out the window and just embrace anarchy and do whatever we want! loot and pillage. burn it all down because tomorrow WE MIGHT ALL DIE.

[Jkap_Goat]

Yeah they made red mage work, it uses black and white magic, it uses melee attacks and use a cure, sadly Red Mage doesn't use more healing orsupport abilities like other final Fantasy games. How will blue mage work here when it's knowned to use a lot of monster abilities like mighty gaurd or white wind, Which are healing and tanking monster spells? How would blue mage be any different than the other DPS magic caster's. It would be in this magical dps role just casting magic DPS like all the other ones and it wouldn't be any different. Is that what you want?

[Flatopia]

Yeah they made red mage work, it uses black and white magic, it uses melee attacks and use a cure, sadly Red Mage doesn't use more healing orsupport abilities like other final Fantasy games. How will blue mage work here when it's knowned to use a lot of monster abilities like mighty gaurd or white wind, Which are healing and tanking monster spells? How would blue mage be any different than the other DPS magic caster's. It would be in this magical dps role just casting magic DPS like all the other ones and it wouldn't be any different. Is that what you want?

A spot in the most competitive, well tuned, and creative role set?
Do I want Blue mage in that, as another caster dps?

You bet I do! The jobs are honestly ass extremely viable and only really dive into extreme class picking on week 1 raids if not only day 1 or 2.
It the casters are all fun, unique, and genuinely amazingly done! While I do agree that summoners pets could do with a client side option to make them bigger looking or something, every single caster is great!
They’re so varied and all have unique and fun mechanics that I personally love to play!
I’m fact all jobs do! I’m very impressed with how different the jobs feel while remaining competitive with maybe MCH being the black sheep in terms of quality of design.

I love how they handle the jobs in ffxiv! So, yeah! I would love to see a fresh take on blue mage in easily the most consistently fun role of caster dps!

I don’t see “just” another caster. I see “Holy cow” another caster from how well done these jobs are handled

[jon041065]

Yeah they made red mage work, it uses black and white magic, it uses melee attacks and use a cure, sadly Red Mage doesn't use more healing orsupport abilities like other final Fantasy games. How will blue mage work here when it's knowned to use a lot of monster abilities like mighty gaurd or white wind, Which are healing and tanking monster spells? How would blue mage be any different than the other DPS magic caster's. It would be in this magical dps role just casting magic DPS like all the other ones and it wouldn't be any different. Is that what you want?

Of course the spells would be essentially the same as the other casters have but with different skins. That doens't mean they would have to function the same way. Does rdm core spells function the same as blm's?

My idea would be that blu would have fire, wind, earth, and thunder aligned blue spells make up their core rotation. Yes, same as rdm but these could be "physical blue spells". They could function something closer to mudras in that you perform combos with them. Could work like a much expanded mudra system or have the job gauge track like the last 3 elements you have used. There could be 10+ combinations based on which elements and in which order they were used. Fire/earth/fire and earth/fire/earth could give you different results. Could go crazy and have 36 combinations if you made it that each element had its own cooldown so you wouldn't repeat the same element in a row. Have ocgds be things like bad breath and mighty guard and white wind as your group utility cooldowns.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The game needs more mid-tier solo content. Not less.

This assumes the Masked Carnival will be mid-core content. Given they intend this to be for everyone and not say, a raider audience ala Savage. I can't say I expect the difficulty to be higher than a hard mode trial.

[Jkap_Goat]

Of course the spells would be essentially the same as the other casters have but with different skins. That doens't mean they would have to function the same way. Does rdm core spells function the same as blm's?

My idea would be that blu would have fire, wind, earth, and thunder aligned blue spells make up their core rotation. Yes, same as rdm but these could be "physical blue spells". They could function something closer to mudras in that you perform combos with them. Could work like a much expanded mudra system or have the job gauge track like the last 3 elements you have used. There could be 10+ combinations based on which elements and in which order they were used. Fire/earth/fire and earth/fire/earth could give you different results. Could go crazy and have 36 combinations if you made it that each element had its own cooldown so you wouldn't repeat the same element in a row. Have ocgds be things like bad breath and mighty guard and white wind as your group utility cooldowns.

Yes because Red Mage is a hybrid between black and white magic, so yes Red Mage does take a bit of spells from Black Mage, but blue mage isn't associated with white and black, BLU using wind, water, earth, lighting spells would be a Geomancer. And geomancer uses elemental spells

The core of blue mage is going out and learning monster abilities

And black mage already uses fire and lighting and ice damaging spells, so it wouldn't be any different from it either. Just the same job with "BLU" written on it.

Seems to me like to want a very watered down blue mage far from it's identity as possible that it wouldn't be a blue mage anymore.

"Have ocgds be things like bad breath and mighty guard and white wind as your group utility cooldowns"

.....What? Those are healing and tanking monster abilities , not utilities cooldowns.