Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.

[Darkpaw]

So... don't just create one new system and potentially exciting content for people to try and enjoy.. but do that.. and create a full balanced job in the middle of a raid tier... while working on a massive patch, and massive expansion, in the middle of your press tour. BECAUSE I DEMAND IT. That's what this boils down to..

Look at what blue mage did for some of the largest complaints this community has had for two years: "Revitalize the open world there's no reason for us to go there!" Oop now you have Blue mage a job who's whole level prog is based in THE OPEN WORLD just like you all wanted.

"We want you to be more innovative and creative and original with content and give us things we haven't seen before." They give us limited jobs so that the possibility is reopened for us to have all the jobs we were told would never be in this game.

"We want more solo focused content so we don't always feel forced into a group in order to progress." They give us blue mage, and they make it completely viable for you to prog it all solo but they also make it so you can go and do things in a group so you can still have fun with your friends like any mmo.

"We completionists want more collectibles." They give you blue mage and it's monster abilities. Go nuts kids.

And all you had to give up was the traditional cookie cutter feel of a new job whose hype dies down 3 days after you play it. For on going content that could be good or bad and even if it's bad...they'll likely fix it eventually, but let's all panic and run like the sky is falling and the sun god has abandoned us, before we even get a chance to put fingers to keys or hands to controllers... and even try what they worked hard on giving us.

[Flatopia]

So... don't just create one new system and potentially exciting content for people to try and enjoy.. but do that.. and create a full balanced job in the middle of a raid tier... while working on a massive patch, and massive expansion, in the middle of your press tour. BECAUSE I DEMAND IT. That's what this boils down to

Did I say do so right away? No, and it looks bad to assume. I’m saying that with all visible assets already in the game, should they hear the backlash from the, seemingly, majority of players it would be easier than any other job to implement. If they did this I would imagine it to be done after ShB.
Oh, and it’s not because I demand it. I’m saying this because me, and a lot of other people have been waiting 6+ years for blue mage in ffxiv, and we always were hoping it to be usable in all content. Yet, at the same time, most of us recognize this game mode has the potential to be fun- it’s just not what most people wanted.

I’m glad they did something new, and I’m glad this touches upon what you wanted, it just didn’t for me and a lot of people and we have the ability to say so in hopes that everyone is satisfied down the road.

Ah, and we didn’t give up the traditional cookie cutter feel, we gave up the ability to do raids with the rest of the community, we gave up the ability to play the core game as the one job we love and have been asking for, we gave up the wonder and mystery of wondering what new and fun mechanics blue mage would bring into the current formula.
That’s a big deal to many, and what looks like most, people even if it isn’t to you.

[Darkpaw]

First let me apologize because my post came off a lot differently then intended. It was not a personal rebuttal of you and what you wanted. I was using the term “you” as a reference to the community in general.

Secondly let me say i agree that it could viably be changed into a full meta job sometime after ShB. However my issue with this is the expected demand to be met based on criticism we have given before it is even playable, and well before we have all relevant information. Because realistically we got a lot less information then we think we did.

I’m in the same boat as you. Anyone I’ve played with for any significant length of time can tell you I’ve been waiting for blue mage since I started this game just after heavensward, and I’m just as disappointed that it doesn’t appear to be a job I can main in ShB. Also we are assuming what we see here in the forums and on reddit and perhaps on twitch and YouTube is the majority, but more realistically it’s the majority of the people WE see and speak to. Perhaps not the gaming majority. We have two other regions of this game with a ton of people on them as well so we don’t know which camp has the majority.

Thirdly I’m not saying this is what I wanted. It isn’t. What I wanted isn’t even remotely important because I don’t develop this game and I’m only one player in a massive game. I personally wanted blue mage to be a tank I didn’t get that but I’m okay with trusting a dev team that has revitalized and made successful a game that after 1.0 everyone had pretty much given up on.

And finally, we don’t fully know what we have given up or for how long. This is the core problem. Much of what we are backlashing against is based on speculation on the vague premises of what they gave to us in the form of information. This is what is making this so frustrating for both sides. That’s why I’ve been on forums trying to say let’s at least give this a try and give the dev team actual honest feedback after we have experienced it so we don’t just rely on a knee jerk reaction. Let’s take a step back and breath and try to go into this with open minds so when it comes time for feedback. We can tell them that we gave it a chance and it’s not what we want it’s not what we like and here are our ideas on how you could fix this for us.

[jon041065]

The criticism is coming from hearing about their concept of "limited jobs" and thinking it's a terrible idea. That doesn't mean we are against adding more side and open world content. A lot of us would actually like to see it made larger than just a blu thing. I worried about the future of the game if we give them a pass on the excuse of "it's too hard". To me, that's saying that we have already seen the best the devs have to offer and the future of the game will never reach new heights.

[Berethos]

Why do you assume that? What’s stopping them from having a well designed fun job to take into current content alongside this blue mage move log and carnival mini game?
There is no good reason we can’t have both, while integrating the job fantasy into its play style. To assume it would just be ‘another caster’ or other silly assumption is baseless as we not only have no idea what kind of caster it could be, but also all casters so far are very unique and fun!

To assume that we have to fight over having a unique solo content done for the sole purpose of flavor, and a unique job that integrates the old mechanics into a new fresh light for ff14’s formula is rediculous! Why not have a “limited” job crystal in which you can play blue mage as the limited jobs intention, and an unlimited version that’s unlocked after getting so far in carnival or something?

What, in the history of this game, gives you the impression they'd put the equivalent of at least the development of 1.5 jobs, if not two, into just one job...just so some players can play a less exciting version of the job in level-cap content?

I mean, we're talking about developing ongoing abilities from monsters and ongoing content for the Masked Carnivale on top of the job quests it's getting, and then having to develop a system that checks whether they entered based on DF or not and restrict as necessary, and then balance all those other abilities and choose a specific set (choosing spells being more than a glamour the way Egis are is just super unlikely to happen in content where classes are meant to be balanced) and give it its own mechanic separate from the learning abilities one that actually impact how its rotation plays, since *what* you have learned is at the core of it traditionally but that's not a combat mechanic the way Greased Lightning or Bard Songs or Astral Fire/Umbral Ice are (as of right now it's main mechanic IS finding spells to use, this suggestion of two versions would require grafting a new main mechanic in) - maybe once you start seriously considering the kind of ongoing development that would go into such a approach, you'll realize why it's just being realistic to acknowledge that it's a one or the other approach that is viable here.

You either get Blue Mage, or you get a caster wearing a Blue Mage costume (and possibly one of those cheap ones from Wal-Mart if you're really unlucky, like the poor Summoners). The idea they'd be doing both (without losing the other non-limited jobs we're getting) is just wishful thinking.

[Darkpaw]

The criticism is coming from hearing about their concept of "limited jobs" and thinking it's a terrible idea. That doesn't mean we are against adding more side and open world content. A lot of us would actually like to see it made larger than just a blu thing. I worried about the future of the game if we give them a pass on the excuse of "it's too hard". To me, that's saying that we have already seen the best the devs have to offer and the future of the game will never reach new heights.

You mean the concept we only have a base understanding about? Like the information we got on this job system and it's future is actually almost nothing. We have barely a baseline understanding of it and shouldn't pass judgement on it until we give it a chance and see how it goes, and yes it would be lovely to see a much larger more full and active and interactive world but for all we know blue mage and it's content is just the start of the dev team moving towards realizing that dream. These are not just lightswitch adjustments that can be made. A lot of time, effort, and creativity has to be put into a singular system. Let alone making a living breathing interactive open world. Small steps and patience go a long way.

As for the pass on blue mage.. it would be more giving them a pass if we just let them say 'it's too hard" and never even attempted to implement blue mage. Instead they went above and beyond and decided not to just give us another end game job that will boil down to the same basic playstyle as the other casters with blue mage flavor. They put the effort in to create a whole new system into the game, from the ground up, centered around a single job a place where it and only it can shine brighter and not be tarnished by any of the other jobs or content. While beginning to address some other major concerns the community has had about this game in a really innovative way in an effort to push this game to even higher heights, and the community dumps all over the idea before it's even launched and they've even given it a fair chance. The whole argument that giving them a pass on not making blue mage like all the other classes is admitting we've seen the best that the devs has to offer isn't an argument at all. It's an irrational fear of trying something completely new because of bad branding in calling it a limited system, and jumping to a conclusion that we don't have enough data to support yet. All because it doesn't function like the rest.

None of us, have any clue what the future holds for the limited system, the blue mage or anything else. We simply do not know. So we're letting our worst fears play out in our head with the limited amount of information we are receiving. I'm all for apprehension, and I'm all for cautious optimism. What I can not support is condemning innovative new content coming into this game without ever getting my hands on it and experiencing it for myself.

[jon041065]

Because I don't need to hear more details about limited jobs beyond "can't function in the full game" for me to believe it's an awful idea. Yes, I hope the Carnival does well but we don't have to sacrifice a full job in order to get it. I also never said it would be something like a lightswitch to make changes. I'd be fine if they came out and said they have seen the backlash and will be taking the time to make a full version of blu. I don't even care if there is no estimated patch given for when it would be done by. Just knowing that they are working on it is fine even if it takes more than a year.

I wouldn't say they have gone above and beyond. Why would blu have to be another caster? I would have preferred a tank but melee support would be cool as well. Yeah it's a new system that I think for the most part is fine besides the limited aspect.

I meant that if we give them a pass here on something they claim is "too hard" that then they might also use it again on things like level sync and other requests that have already been made and future ones.

[jon041065]

You either get Blue Mage, or you get a caster wearing a Blue Mage costume (and possibly one of those cheap ones from Wal-Mart if you're really unlucky, like the poor Summoners). The idea they'd be doing both (without losing the other non-limited jobs we're getting) is just wishful thinking.

Why does it have to be another caster? Blu could work as a tank or as a melee. Their own versions of classic FF jobs have been pretty well received. Yes, smn wasn't at first but it's getting better now. A big part of why a lot of us play 14 is to see their own version of these jobs. What they did here was take blu from FFV and put in in the game with some cool looking side content.

[Darkpaw]

Because I don't need to hear more details about limited jobs beyond "can't function in the full game" for me to believe it's an awful idea. Yes, I hope the Carnival does well but we don't have to sacrifice a full job in order to get it. I also never said it would be something like a lightswitch to make changes. I'd be fine if they came out and said they have seen the backlash and will be taking the time to make a full version of blu. I don't even care if there is no estimated patch given for when it would be done by. Just knowing that they are working on it is fine even if it takes more than a year.

I wouldn't say they have gone above and beyond. Why would blu have to be another caster? I would have preferred a tank but melee support would be cool as well. Yeah it's a new system that I think for the most part is fine besides the limited aspect.

I meant that if we give them a pass here on something they claim is "too hard" that then they might also use it again on things like level sync and other requests that have already been made and future ones.

Because it was announced as a ranged dps we can safely speculate that it was always intended as a ranged dps. What do all casters do? Work to fill a job specific resource: polyglot for black mage, balance gauge for red mage, dreadwyrm aether for summoner, to release a single massive damage skill.. which is a frequent idea for blue mage.. "Give it a standard dps rotation and have it end with like a powerful blue magic."... do we really need another caster following the same exact basic formula as every other mage in this game? really?

[jon041065]

Because it was announced as a ranged dps we can safely speculate that it was always intended as a ranged dps. What do all casters do? Work to fill a job specific resource: polyglot for black mage, balance gauge for red mage, dreadwyrm aether for summoner, to release a single massive damage skill.. which is a frequent idea for blue mage.. "Give it a standard dps rotation and have it end with like a powerful blue magic."... do we really need another caster following the same exact basic formula as every other mage in this game? really?

Yes now it's a caster. I meant that it could have been a tank or melee back during the design stage. And yes, I rather have yet another caster that follows a basic formula that I can do all content with than what has been proposed. If I wanted something else, I'd go play a game that had something like that. I'm not against the open world aspect nor the Carnival and would like to see all jobs get things like this.