Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.

[Thayos]

Blue mage can participate in Battle content. Just not current content.

So basically, it's a minigame that utilizes past content.

People, correct me if I'm wrong here... but MMORPGs ultimately boil down to three systems: Leveling, minigames, and endgames. Right? Anything that doesn't contribute to the current tier of progression (endgame) is a minigame. Sure, there are a few "but what abouts!" to consider, but generally speaking... if it's not endgame, it's a minigame. If you're not first, you're last.

Not trying to hate on Blu here, but let's keep it real. If the bulk of Blu's gameplay is in obsolete content and a single arena where it plays solo, then that's not endgame, which means it's a minigame, and to try to call a minigame "battle content" is deceiving. That's like saying FFXIV has sports content because of that silly Golden Saucer minigame where you kind of shoot baskets.

Also, is ANY of FFXIV's minigame content actually popular? Other than housing, which is still only marginally "popular" because so few people can actually own houses?

[JBee]

And getting the skills will lilely involve going to eureka or diadem, giving a false impression that I actually like that content.

On the one bright side, I think this specifically will be extremely unlikely. The cap to start is 50, for one. If Diadem/Eureka were one OPTION to learn the skills - that would be all well and good. Options and choices are good things. But if they were the only option to learn a given skill, once the level cap caught up, well I'm not sure what I would do. Mothball the job? Ignore it? Unsub? I don't know. Have to wait and see how it all plays out I guess.

[Maero]

I have not read everything what was posted by everyone but my take on it is at least they are finally trying something different.
Had they added blu to the list of jobs, people would probably complain about the meta, it being too OP or bleh bleh and it would all be the same.

Keeping it as a seperate identity i think may work out for the best.
Should they add Dancer (finally) and go this route however, i will be upset.
We need not a limited job expansion nor a dps only expansion again

[JBee]

Keeping it as a seperate identity i think may work out for the best.
Should they add Dancer (finally) and go this route however, i will be upset.

So it's ok to disappoint others as long as you are not disappointed yourself?

Right.

[Aerlana]

I’m surprised that with so many complaining about the stale endgame, the linear progression grind, and no reasons to replay old content or play in the open world, that there’s so much vitriol around Blue Mage.

Does the BLU change anything about the end game? => no
Does the BLU change anything about the linear progression grind ? => no
Does the BLU change anything about replaying old content => just a little
Does the BLU change anything about the open world ? => no... it wont fill the openworld...


People wanted BLU as new job, and... we dont get it... people complains about this...

You speak about how much BLU will go together in open world, but... no? the endgame is in a duty system... not in openworld.

And simple question : why cant the BLU get this solocontent (solo in Massively Multiplayer game... ? ) AND getting a form able to go the the core content of the game ? Why just getting one part.


For the part about "would be just one more mage" or "BM would be a noncaster smn" ... the matter is not around those job, but around the game itself.
RDM, BLU, SMN, BLM, are 4 totally different job on FFXI (MMORPG also). With specific gameplay, mindset to go with. . . Dragoon on FFXI also gets a pet, but clearly nothing to compare with beastmaster or sumoner. etc etc... This last part of your post just show some matters in FFXIV...

[Melichoir]

Does the BLU change anything about the end game? => no

It depends how you define end game. Fisherman doesnt change anything about teh endgame, but it is to some. End game can mean anything. Glamour can be the end game. Owning a house can be one. being lvl 70 on everything. End game is open to interpretation in FFXIV. What you probably mean is End Tier Prog.

Does the BLU change anything about the linear progression grind ? => no

We dont actually know this currently. Since the game is built around a lvling system, I guess you could say its still linear progression grind. But the "end game" results of BLU are not known to us yet. And of course, 'end game' can change patch to patch.

Does the BLU change anything about replaying old content => just a little

This we again, dont know. All we know is BLU is supposed to do old content, and supposedly it can Solo content. Thats it. Will it redesign every dungeon? No, probably not. But it will change you interact with those dungeons.

Does the BLU change anything about the open world ? => no... it wont fill the openworld...

This isnt known; its an assumption. Also, this is also a factor of limited knowledge about SB2 generally. We dont know if the new xpac will affect open world content, and if so, how it will do so. More info is needed broadly.

People wanted BLU as new job, and... we dont get it... people complains about this...

You are getting BLU as a new job, its just not being implemented in a way you like. BLU is, without question, a new job. It is just not designed in the same vein as current jobs. Saying its not a new job is purely asinine, UNLESS you define new jobs as being able to raid. In which case, none of the Gathering and Crafting jobs are jobs. Yet theyre considered it by what I would hazard to be the majority of players.

You speak about how much BLU will go together in open world, but... no? the endgame is in a duty system... not in openworld.

The end game for BLU is solo content as it currently is, but that doesnt mean BLU will not be doing things in open world content. Again, this also is dependant on if things change or not in SB2 in regards to OW content.

And simple question : why cant the BLU get this solocontent (solo in Massively Multiplayer game... ? ) AND getting a form able to go the the core content of the game ? Why just getting one part.

Because balance. Something a lot of us have been trying to explain. The core design of the class wouldnt function from a balance point perspective unless a lot of concessions were made. And hte Devs felt that this would not give what people wanted. The initial thing people asked for was "Give us BLU mage." The devs are doing this, and now the issue lies with "I cant raid with friends! This is garbage!" Cause keep this point in mind: Ive not seen anyone here is arguing that what the Devs are giving us ISNT BLU. Theyre arguing that they cant use it in Raid content.

For the part about "would be just one more mage" or "BM would be a noncaster smn" ... the matter is not around those job, but around the game itself.
RDM, BLU, SMN, BLM, are 4 totally different job on FFXI (MMORPG also). With specific gameplay, mindset to go with. . . Dragoon on FFXI also gets a pet, but clearly nothing to compare with beastmaster or sumoner. etc etc... This last part of your post just show some matters in FFXIV...

Theyre 4 different jobs, but BLU is different from the other 3. Noteably, BLU learns its skills from monsters. Thats its gimmick. Everyone else learns their skills in a single line progression from NPCs. Blue doesnt. If you wanted BLU to be implemented and balanced, then all the "monster learning" aspects of BLU become is a harder, more convoluted version of "doing an NPC quest", because the rest of its playstyle would have to be in line with all the other casters. That would also mean skills learned in a linear manner, skills being no more powerful than any other casters, and the necessity of a rotation/priority system.

When you actually consider a lot of what must be concessions would need to be made for party content. This chips away at the BLU identity. What makes it stand out becomes superficial. A lot of us are pointing this out, and are saying "The Devs saw this and decided it was better to make BLU as true to heart as possible, rather than another caster with a weird way to learn their skills."

[Thayos]

End game can mean anything.

Shtaaaaaap.

Sorry, but that's entirely wrong. Endgame is endgame, and we all know what that means. Your own personal endgame might be one of FFXIV's minigames, but minigames are not FFXIV's endgame. FFXIV's endgame is progression content with rewards at or near the edge of the current iLevel cap.

The argument could be made that fishing is more of a leveling system than a minigame, but leveling isn't endgame, either. Only endgame is endgame. In MMORPGs, endgame systems have some kind of group/shared dynamic. Solo activities you do at the level cap are just higher-level minigames.

[Aerlana]

*snip*

Wont answer sentence by sentence.



But yes, fisherman while getting his own end game, is usefull for the main endgame content. Some foods uses fish, fish collected by... fisherman.
Also, many people complains about the fact crafters are finally a side content, the crafting gear is used mainly for aesthetic (side content) or the people wanting to kill the new raid8 asap.

AND YES the BLU wont change anything about the leveling and the grinding. When 5.0 comes out, you will have to take your favourite job, doing quest after quest, until getting lvl 80, then grind your roulet's for tomestone, etc. All i say there may be false for shadowbringers yes. but not due to BLU but due to another change on the game.

The blu will have to go to open world, and yes, for 2-3 month at release we will see many people traveling there and there getting their skills... not only because it will be fun but also because it will be the only thing to do on FFXIV. your friend list will also show many blue mage on old content. but after? fast we will go back to empty deserts... It is the time to get the skills, but when you have them, no need to go get them again. the "next part" of the BLU is doing his personnal and specific content (the carnival thing)

You speak also about what could SB2 give to openworld, but as we know, BLU will be limited to lvl 50, and nothing shows it will go up to 80 at 5.0 releases. Maybe it will be. but nothing was said this way. So if the openworld of SB2 (the new areas so) are more living than the older, it is not due to BLU but... other things.



And lets finish with balance ... but, what? how did the BLU exist in FFXI if this is so impossible?
How is it hard to do make bosses imune to some effect... I mean, a FF boss is most of time imune to "death" spell no? And i never managed get ifrit, Shiva or even a dongeon boss in sleep state with the good spell.
I dont want a blu "only for raid" this side content will probably be wonderfull, but what is the matter getting this side content, AND getting a list of 24 skills decided by SE, with effect balance to fit the job work in raid? Is it so hard? no. clearly no. no Harder to what they did with the 15 current job.

Yes, will be harder to get skills as BLU than other jobs, but is it a matter? i mean, it will be the 16th job, and 2 more to come (gunblade and surely dancer) ... And we are on FFXIV, getting hard time getting the 24 (or a little more) skills to have your job ready doesnt block you from endgame content... You go as blm, whm, or any other job you like, the time you get up to day with BLU.
When NIN was released, a member of my static did want play this... he did continue to play monk (like before) until his NIN was ready...


ALL JOBS was cut from some of his identity.
Where is DRK self-mutilate?
Where is the throwing item mechanic from NIN?
The song from bard, limited to 2 skill and some side feature.
where are the wonderfull summons? (again, on FFXI, the summons was far bigger than the egi, but the summoner, itself alone was clearly nothing)
Why does WHM get so much damages skill, and so much damages output?



The blue mage could get skills from ennemies AND getting into raid
The blue mage could have a specific personnal content, AND being able to go raiding

People raging there are not against the content we get, but the fact we DONT HAVE the Blue Mage Job.
The devs themselves are saying we dont get blue mage as job... but as "limited job" . We have a content around what the blue mage in final fantasy mythology is, but we dont have the job.



About "what is endgame content"
Deepdogneon, even in solo (the hardest way) is a "side content" Eureka is side content. and mask carnival will be side content. triple triad, chocobo racing are side content.
When people are speaking about "end game" they think sadic raid, ultimate...



Here is a simple suggestion : dont change anything of what was announced except the duties limitations, and the max lvl. (no limit, and same max level than any other job)
BUT for any "non specific content"
1) have to be able to go in with finishing a quest asking a list of skill to learn (so, cant go in content without having the good skills)
2) get as much skills as other job from the X skills the BLU will have, and use them (and change a little?) to get the BLU a "raiding" gameplay.

The bad side : some skills will have 2 effect, one for "solo content" and one for the duties content (lets imagine the morbol skill, in solo, will send 2397 different debuff, in raid, will do "only" a dot and maybe damages on impact)
But not a so hard bad side, and... the "true" blue mage will exists, as much as it exists now... While allowing player to use "blue mage" in raiding content... simply

[Optee]

Shtaaaaaap.

Sorry, but that's entirely wrong. Endgame is endgame, and we all know what that means. Your own personal endgame might be one of FFXIV's minigames, but minigames are not FFXIV's endgame. FFXIV's endgame is progression content with rewards at or near the edge of the current iLevel cap.

The argument could be made that fishing is more of a leveling system than a minigame, but leveling isn't endgame, either. Only endgame is endgame. In MMORPGs, endgame systems have some kind of group/shared dynamic. Solo activities you do at the level cap are just higher-level minigames.

Is this the reason why MMORPGs is the only genre that exists purely on incestuous and stagnate game design for over a decade? GW2 had and has proven that endgame can be anything and that raiding/dungeon running is just another form of it. If FPSes only thought of their game design end goal being Just Shoot People and if you aren't just shooting people you aren't a real FPS game, we wouldn't have Team Based Shooters, Objective Based game designs, Battle Royales with building elements, Moba/FPSes or Portal or Portal 2 a FPS/Puzzle game. So please, you stop. Endgame should and needs to be redefined to more than just current tier or cutting edge content. The foreign concept of Solo in MMOs being sneered at spits in the face of innovation and progress as well as past QoL innovations such as the Dungeon/Raid Finder, a product of solo players not wanting to have to interact too much with the player base in a massive multiplayer game.

[Thayos]

Endgame should and needs to be redefined to more than just current tier or cutting edge content.

But that is literally what endgame is, LOL. It's not called "side game" or "mid game."

You mentioned GW2, which actually in the past few years implemented endgame raids because its lack of real endgame was so heavily criticized. GW2's "endgame" was basically a bunch of leveling systems with some free-for-all raids that were chaotic and not much fun. (Hence the implementation of more traditional raids.)

Look... I'm not a hardcore raider. I barely run savage (haven't in months), and haven't even touched the most recent Ex primals. (My midcore static fell apart months ago.) But let's be real and not dance around what endgame in FFXIV is or isn't.

We don't know everything about blu yet. I don't believe it's been confirmed that Blu can't raid with premades... so maybe, with the right configurations, Blu will have a place at the endgame table. For now, though, all we really know is Blu is designed for leveling in old areas and participating in a high-level minigame which seems to do nothing to progress the job any closer to endgame activities.

It is what it is. Don't hate on me for that.