Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[Mithia]

Dungeons are generally universally appealing. The main sell of Final Fantasy 14 is a fairly standard RPG set in an MMO world.

It is one thing to develop side content, it is another if the main cake of the game is compromised for this side content. My main annoyance is that FF14 implements a plethora of features, but fails to follow up or complete any of them. They're diversions at best, and many of them you get everything you ever will out of them after 15 minutes.

To be fair dungeons are a great way to tell a story, and that is what they are used for. Saying that they are the main sell of FFXIV is questionable however, I'd rather say the extensive MSQ would be the main sell. While the classical modern MMO (WoW clone) invests alot of time in dungeons and raids, who is to say that it should be the main focus. WoW does raids and dungeons better then any game out there, so why should ffxiv try to compete with them over this?

I'd rather see them have their own strengths. And diversity in content and lore are their strengths. Adding a new job, even tho it may be "limited" is a great way to add more to the world. And in the end, it is meant to be a world, not an idle in capital and queue for stuff kind of world.

[Kabooa]

I'd rather see them have their own strengths. And diversity in content and lore are their strengths. Adding a new job, even tho it may be "limited" is a great way to add more to the world. And in the end, it is meant to be a world, not an idle in capital and queue for stuff kind of world.

And Blue Mage's current implementation fixes this how?

Once you get your skill from that monster in that zone you move on and never bother again.

That isn't a more immersive and engaging world, that's just the level 1-15 grind so you can dungeon again, only over a course of 50 levels and you can only premake dungeons.

[Darkpaw]

Source on this? Because it seems like you are speculating that after we get to 15 all of our abilities will only ever come from dungeon bosses/mobs. It’s not a fix all it’s a step in the right direction

[Flatopia]

I don’t understand why they have to be at odds with each other, the idea of the log and carnival somehow not being able to be in the game if they smack a BLU job that can do all content.
I think so long as a majority of players wish for something, the dev team would want to do it or at least acknowledge the desire.
In this case, BLU is very wanted by most people to do normal content. What if next live letter they got up and said.
“Thanks to the community, we realize that both the carnival and a standard job are the way to go forward. And, much later of course, as designing and implementing a job takes time and effort even if all assets are there, they add an unlimited version of the job as a reward for doing carnival?

[Mithia]

And Blue Mage's current implementation fixes this how?

Once you get your skill from that monster in that zone you move on and never bother again.

That isn't a more immersive and engaging world, that's just the level 1-15 grind so you can dungeon again, only over a course of 50 levels and you can only premake dungeons.

As an above poster mentioned, its not all from dungeons. Secondly, going with that train of thought that once you complete something the content is dead... well I have no real words for that. There will always be new players trying out the BLU job, and in a later patch they might as well add similar jobs such as the Beast Master who also thrive in solo content.

This brings life to the world, and I'm not saying the world is dead right now, just less populated. It would in any case be a great opportunity to do those old big fates if you still lack the achievements from them.

I don’t understand why they have to be at odds with each other, the idea of the log and carnival somehow not being able to be in the game if they smack a BLU job that can do all content.
I think so long as a majority of players wish for something, the dev team would want to do it or at least acknowledge the desire.
In this case, BLU is very wanted by most people to do normal content. What if next live letter they got up and said.
“Thanks to the community, we realize that both the carnival and a standard job are the way to go forward. And, much later of course, as designing and implementing a job takes time and effort even if all assets are there, they add an unlimited version of the job as a reward for doing carnival?

BLU is only wanted to be a "normal DoM job" by the vocal minority who can't straight away go into raids with them, or actually have to play the game to get its entire kit. Try it out, then come back and criticize it. No need to assume the rape of your favorite job from previous installments just because it is limited in DF or levels.

[Kabooa]

Source on this? Because it seems like you are speculating that after we get to 15 all of our abilities will only ever come from dungeon bosses/mobs. It’s not a fix all it’s a step in the right direction

I didn't make a claim, I made a comparison.

The world isn't more engaging because Blue Mage exists. The world remains flawed. Blue Mage is just the latest coat of paint to distract from that.

[Flatopia]

BLU is only wanted to be a "normal DoM job" by the vocal minority who can't straight away go into raids with them, or actually have to play the game to get its entire kit. Try it out, then come back and criticize it. No need to assume the rape of your favorite job from previous installments just because it is limited in DF or levels.

Actually according to nearly every poll I’ve seen through many forums and even several I’ve conducted in game and in the larger communities I subscribe to, it’s, at the smallest, only slightly edging out in terms of opinion, and at worst being the very vast majority.
Also, it’s more so they’re upset they can’t ‘main’ it in any new content. They made it clear it’s not a real job, and as such should be treated as a side thing. They’re more upset that the job they’re waiting 6+ years for is unable to do any content that most would consider standard. No tome stones, no raids, no ex’s, no 24 mans, not even msq!
While I do agree that trying it out is important to see its future, they made it very clear right away that the current design is simply not a standard job, and as such the reaction is very understandable. It’s not a matter of not liking what it is, it’s a matter of being dissapointed at what most people believe it should have been.

Also to call this the “rape” of our job is silly, we’re in this predicament because the team refused to give any leeway on the idea of finding moves out in the world at the sacrifice of standard content. It’s ironically too faithful to a single aspect of the jobs identity.

[Darkpaw]

I didn't make a claim, I made a comparison.

The world isn't more engaging because Blue Mage exists. The world remains flawed. Blue Mage is just the latest coat of paint to distract from that.

I never said claim. I said it seems like speculation. Does it entirely fix the problem with a lack of open world content? No. It does however signal a step in the right direction by giving us some new content based in the open world. From what I can tell from solely what was revealed this doesn’t feel like some random coat of paint to distract. If anything it feels more like a way for them to shine a light by putting more people in the open world and seeing what complaints come out of the open world and what feedback they get. So they can make better adjustments later. Albeit that seems like a secondary goal compared to creating new and unique content so not all jobs play primarily the same as each other.

Let’s look at casters. You can boil down all three current casters to a single play style, build up a job specific resource to release a devestating move, black mage builds polyglot to get foul, red mage fills its balance gauge and lets you choose between Verholy and verflare after a melee combo, summoner builds up dreadwyrm aether to summon demibahamut so it can ahkmorhn... do we really need another caster that boils down to this same formula? Or would we rather them try to give us a new caster experience? Would the community be this upset if this was an original job and not called blue mage? We blame nostalgia for this implementation and too rigid an adherence to “one aspect of blue mage’s identity.” But nostalgia is also the reason for much of the backlash.

[Mithia]

Actually according to nearly every poll I’ve seen through many forums and even several I’ve conducted in game and in the larger communities I subscribe to, it’s, at the smallest, only slightly edging out in terms of opinion, and at worst being the very vast majority.
Also, it’s more so they’re upset they can’t ‘main’ it in any new content. They made it clear it’s not a real job, and as such should be treated as a side thing. They’re more upset that the job they’re waiting 6+ years for is unable to do any content that most would consider standard. No tome stones, no raids, no ex’s, no 24 mans, not even msq!
While I do agree that trying it out is important to see its future, they made it very clear right away that the current design is simply not a standard job, and as such the reaction is very understandable. It’s not a matter of not liking what it is, it’s a matter of being dissapointed at what most people believe it should have been.

Also to call this the “rape” of our job is silly, we’re in this predicament because the team refused to give any leeway on the idea of finding moves out in the world at the sacrifice of standard content. It’s ironically too faithful to a single aspect of the jobs identity.

Maybe calling it rape is a step to far, I apologize.

Could you provide links to said polls if you please? Because in game discussions usually lead to a very positive look on the way they are going with BLU. This is of course purely from my pov and can't be used for large scale reference.

They never made it "clear" tho that it isn't a "real job", they said that currently its a "limited job and they will up the level cap with an upcoming patch".
It is however flawed to perceive BLU as if you can't enter raids or obtain tome stones, even 24 mans is possible if you go into pf. Yes you won't be able to get bonus tome stones from the daily bonus but that's also it, you can still obtain poethics for now. Everything is accessible in ARR. Just not Dungeon Finder.

But you are constantly falling back on the part where it isn't a real job, could you provide me with a quote from Yoshi or any other developer for that. Because it seems to me that its just a general conclusion from the reddit echo chamber.

In all essence the job is there, you just can't expect to dungeon finder or level past level 50 for now.

[Flatopia]

But you are constantly falling back on the part where it isn't a real job, could you provide me with a quote from Yoshi or any other developer for that. Because it seems to me that its just a general conclusion from the reddit echo chamber.

In all essence the job is there, you just can't expect to dungeon finder or level past level 50 for now.

The assumption is made when they very clearly stated it wasn't like other jobs. That it was far too broken to let into standard content, and that the design isn't universal and they have no means to design around that.
Even if they didn't, a non-standard design in which you can cast death on things and insta-kill it, as their own example very clearly would not be allowed in modern content.

And alongside that, they had the very clear bullet point of "not designed for party-use" and "a solo-designed job."
Modern current content is designed with cooperation in mind, such as stacking mechanics or whatnot. The two design philosophies of the Job and the Core up-to-date game experience is simply not compatible.

On the poll, most are simply "say yes or no" in chatrooms, discords, shout chat ((on mateus, I must add)), and forums. The only one with a result was on reddit and I can't seem to find it ((at work))
but every time, even people who didn't care for the job, or thought that the content being added for BLU was fun usually agree that adding a mode in which you can do current content with a safe and well designed job alongside the currently planned features is only a good thing.
As it stands, asking "pick one or the other" is pointless as we not only have no clue what idea they would have come up with for BLU as just the standard job, but also we don't even have gameplay statistics of the currently planned limited job.

As such I think making a point in saying "Both can satisfy everyone and retain every original vision you've stated" from the community would not only enforce the idea that everyone can play what the want, but also retain the job fantasy they're fighting tooth and nail to preserve. I can't say it'd work for every job as I just don't have enough information, but with what I have as of this moment it's not a far fetched idea to please everyone by designing an 'unlimited' core job as a separate mode alongside this limited mode.

Basically, what I want to make clear to everyone and even the developers, we can all win here. And, hey! That means maybe the expansion after ShB they could make a BLU unlimited job with only half the expected dev time! It's even a win on the effort and resources side of things!