Blue mage at patch 4.5

[Shadowshinra]

That still doesn't make any sense to how BLU is planned?

One of Yoshida excuses for Blue being limited was that people would kick BLUs from dungeons if they didn't have the right spells, which would happen for any job, and will actually still happen with BLU in party finders since people are absolutely going to find the best 24 abilities that should be used.

[kikix12]

One of Yoshida excuses for Blue being limited was that people would kick BLUs from dungeons if they didn't have the right spells, which would happen for any job, and will actually still happen with BLU in party finders since people are absolutely going to find the best 24 abilities that should be used.

It does apply to all jobs, yes. But do you honestly not see a difference between a class where there are maybe 30% of their abilities locked behind (and some of them suck or are situational) and a class that never, ever, will get even the most fundamental amount of abilities without the person going far out of their way to obtain them?! And even THEN many of them are likely to still be situational?!

Blue Mage is in absolutely way worse position in terms of player toxicity than any other class. The question here is not whether that's true but whether it can be fixed.

It can, but that requires time and testing. And honestly...having players do the testing here is far better for all people involved. Players because that way any change can happen far earlier, developers because it's going to be a lot more certain result, cheaper with less development time spent on it in place of stuff that players cannot test properly.

[Stanelis]

It does apply to all jobs, yes. But do you honestly not see a difference between a class where there are maybe 30% of their abilities locked behind (and some of them suck or are situational) and a class that never, ever, will get even the most fundamental amount of abilities without the person going far out of their way to obtain them?! And even THEN many of them are likely to still be situational?!

Blue Mage is in absolutely way worse position in terms of player toxicity than any other class. The question here is not whether that's true but whether it can be fixed.

It can, but that requires time and testing. And honestly...having players do the testing here is far better for all people involved. Players because that way any change can happen far earlier, developers because it's going to be a lot more certain result, cheaper with less development time spent on it in place of stuff that players cannot test properly.

Here are quick easy fixes to the issues you raise

1) just make it so monsters abilities aren't the only spells of the class (like in FFVIII with quistis),
2) just make it so you must have X spells learned to join a duty finder group, a damage dealing spell will be a damage dealing spell, no matter what it is, with how the battle system is designed, what will change will mostly be the skin's spell,
3) just make it so you need a level X0 job before you can play blu, so you need to have a basic grasp of the game before you can play blu (blu would then be thought as an "advanced" job).

Also I don't get this mentality where the game should be designed around players who don't want to progress. In a mmorpg, a bad player will be a bad player no matter the job/system. Also, LoL is an incredibly complex game, it doesn't prevent it to be one of the most played game of the decade.

Hell, even pokemon is a game where you need to pick and choose which abilities you want to use, yet it is typically played by children. Please do not think people are idiots.

[Nariel]

snip

Don't need to go that far. So many dungeon complete with Black mage full ice even at lv 70, so many BRD that don't even know they have songs and never used them all the way to the final chest, so many healer that barely use anything but "regen", so many tank that never heard about their defensive buff, so many RDM spamming 'impact' all day long, so many player barely aware of what the big ass orange circle under their feet is, so many people month after release can't make the difference between left and right in Alphascape v11.0 and Yoshida want to make me believe people will care about the spell BLU will use or not in mid-tier content ?

Guess again Naoki-kun, you missed by a long shot.

[LineageRazor]

I skimmed the entire thread, and was shocked no one brought up this point:

Imagine you go to fight Omega M/F. The battle starts, BLU casts Level 5 Death, and it's all over! Obviously, we can't NOT give BLU Level 5 Death, or nerf it against bosses, or the job wouldn't feel like BLU! So, overworld only for you guys!

So, BLU is going to get Level 5 Death, it won't be nerfed, and can be used in the Overworld? That's gonna make Hunts mighty interesting... XD

Having said that, here's my thoughts on Blue Mage as revealed at Fan Festa...

I'm pretty deeply disappointed. I'll play their Blue Mage minigame, and likely enjoy it, but it's frustrating to realize that the devs and YoshiP lack the imagination to make Blue Mage a real, viable job in this game. Folks in this thread have pointed out that Blue Mage as we received it corresponds neatly with comments YoshiP made on the job four years ago, and why HE felt it could not be made to fit in a MMO. The truth is, fans of BLU have been hoping that these past four years would have been time enough for YoshiP to pull his head out of his ass and realize that his vision for BLU is not the only possibility!

YoshiP said himself that everywhere he goes, folks ask for Blue Mage. When is it coming? This alone makes it clear that Blue Mage is a highly desired job. Rather than throwing something together just to make them shut up, he should have found a way to make it WORK. NO player who asked for Blue Mage wanted what we were given. None. Some may be okay with it, and some might actually be enthusiastic about it - but when they asked, they wanted a job that could stand shoulder-to-shoulder with other jobs in this game. They wanted Blue Mage to be their main job, with which they tackled all of the game's content that interested them.

When a job's concept does not perfectly align with the game's design, you alter the concept to fit. This has already been done with MANY jobs in this game - SMN as a DoT specialist with only three summons, Dark Knight as a tank without and form of self-harm, Bard as an archer with only a handful of musical buffs - all of these are pretty significant departures from the jobs as we've known them in other Final Fantasy games. And yes, some players were disappointed with these changes. Blue Mage should have been no different; there are many, many ways it could fit into the game while still being recognizable as a Blue Mage - and yes, the changes needed would have alienated SOME fans of Blue Mage with very particular ideas about the job. For the majority, however, they would understand why the changes were necessary, and accept them.

The concern that parties wouldn't accept BLUs without certain spells is a crock as well. It's no different than parties refusing jobs that haven't learned all of their job abilities. Do you want a Warrior in your party who does not have Deliverance? A Black Mage who does not know Fire IV? A Scholar whose only curative abilities are Physick and Adloquiem? All of these are possible by avoiding job quests, and no content bars a player who has not completed them! Blue Mages who do not learn important spells will be kicked from parties, it is true - and that is PERFECTLY FINE. Just make those important Blue Magic spells as easy to acquire as other jobs' abilities are, and no one can reasonably complain.

Blue Mage doesn't need to have a bazillion spells from which they "equip" a certain number. The only time in Final Fantasy that BLU has been done this way was in FFXI. Therefore, the argument that it would be too difficult to balance so many spells is moot; as long as the number of Blue Mage spells is less than or equal to the number of abilities other jobs get, they should be no more difficult to balance. The argument that some iconic Blue Magic would be useless in a lot of content (like, for example, no boss would be susceptible to Bad Breath) is also not a good argument, as many jobs have crowd control abilities in spite of the fact that, outside of a few specific mechanics, they are useless in such content (Black Mage's Sleep, for instance, or the Role Action Foot Graze).

There have been many discussion threads over the years talking about Blue Mage and how it could work. A lot of good ideas were put forth, as well as a lot of terrible ideas - but good or bad, it's not hard to see that there's more than one way to look at Blue Mage. It sucks that YoshiP was never able to see that.

Long-winded rant aside, I do have to say that I LOVE the look they chose for Blue Mage. It's very reminiscent of the Final Fantasy V look for the job, and I love the "masquerade" vibe. The use of a cane as a weapon is a classy touch, as well.

[Powercow]

So, BLU is going to get Level 5 Death, it won't be nerfed, and can be used in the Overworld? That's gonna make Hunts mighty interesting... XD

Shh! Don't give away that man, come on! I was looking forward to trolling the entire server when an S rank or Ixion spawned and I just 1shot him instantly.

Oh man, the Shadowbringers open world boss is going to be such a ****show with everyone having the ability to swap to BLU and just insta-kill it.

Clearly they can't flag those to be immune, it'd completely destroy the entire image of Blue Mage if they excluded that spell or made anything immune to its effects!

[Nariel]

Shh! Don't give away that man, come on! I was looking forward to trolling the entire server when an S rank or Ixion spawned and I just 1shot him instantly.

Oh man, the Shadowbringers open world boss is going to be such a ****show with everyone having the ability to swap to BLU and just insta-kill it.

Clearly they can't flag those to be immune, it'd completely destroy the entire image of Blue Mage if they excluded that spell or made anything immune to its effects!

Death actualy exist in Pyros/logos, its succes rate change depending of the target life. Spamming death on a full life target will just consume all your MP for no result.

[EusisLandale]

Death actualy exist in Pyros/logos, its succes rate change depending of the target life. Spamming death on a full life target will just consume all your MP for no result.

Could also make it like Infuriate, have to be in combat first, just so there's not even the chance of a boss dying before people can actually try to attack it.

[Powercow]

Could also make it like Infuriate, have to be in combat first, just so there's not even the chance of a boss dying before people can actually try to attack it.

Have a friend tag it, or send in a chocobo first, BAM! Easy peasy.

Death actualy exist in Pyros/logos, its succes rate change depending of the target life. Spamming death on a full life target will just consume all your MP for no result.

Ah but they said in the LL that they're worried you'd go into Omega and 1shot it, thereby nullifying the fight. If that's a valid reason to keep BLU out of endgame content, then they'd have to be awfully inconsistent to not have it function like that in the open world. Clearly the BLU class identity is all about being the most OP thing in the universe and there's no way at all they could go about not letting BLU break the game. Not. A. One.

[Nariel]

Have a friend tag it, or send in a chocobo first, BAM! Easy peasy.

Ah but they said in the LL that they're worried you'd go into Omega and 1shot it, thereby nullifying the fight. If that's a valid reason to keep BLU out of endgame content, then they'd have to be awfully inconsistent to not have it function like that in the open world. Clearly the BLU class identity is all about being the most OP thing in the universe and there's no way at all they could go about not letting BLU break the game. Not. A. One.

Well, they said Eureka won't be like Diadem too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯