SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[SonKevin]

So it was one of the most requested classes for the past few expansions (enough so that you remember it, we disagree as to degree). But then it's really not a popular class. Reconcile.

Past expansion and the 4th most requested (the first two being implemented), but then again, what's left after BLU? GEO is the only one I can think of that's not a completely obscure class. I guess we're only talking about older classes being implemented because Gunblade was something that has also been requested a lot over the years. Realistically it's the second least requested class.

[Powercow]

Pets do not have a plethora of unique damage calculations.

The pet version of "potency" is different from the player version, and they don't benefit from certain buffs and debuffs. 135 potency from Ifrit is less damage than 135 potency from Garuda. In addition, pets do different damage types -- Ifrit, for example, benefits from Dragon Kick.

You're asking SE to go through the game and give every single monster an elemental classifications for one class and only one class. It's not about making a few flags. It's about creating a new system and then applying it to every single mob, every single boss, and anything else since the game came out.

Oof, all this straw sticking out of my shirt makes me an easy target!

No, people are asking for the ability for BLU to, say, provide the piercing debuff for a Bard or Machinist so that a Dragoon isn't mandatory, or they can provide a blanket +magic damage taken debuff to an enemy (they can likely just reuse old code from Foe's Requiem.) The game can differentiate between damage types -- for example, did you know AST's autoattack is Slashing damage? Why can't they have a situation where BLU can apply a piercing debuff and then let Thousand Needles benefit from it, while the BRD also gets a bonus? Or maybe +magic taken and slam them with Trine while letting the SMN also benefit?

Pets don't require you to change the entire battle system. They don't require brand new and unique damage calculations. They didn't require a special form of AI, just any old AI that was already used for NPCs. Pets are nothing like what you're asking.

Pets don't behave like monsters. For example, ever wonder why most monsters don't immediately spam all of their skills in a row at the start of a fight, but pets do? The pet AI being stupid is literally baked into the Summoner rotation.

You're asking for them to bring back a 1.0 system that have basically spent the last 5 years writing out of the game for a single class.

And you're advocating for shutting down the FFXIV servers! See, I can make **** up too!

[Fyce]

SE could easily still include this side content that's just for Blue mage in solo/open-world play.

Yoshida: Alright everyone, I want you to balance all of these 49 abilities TWICE. One time to fit the Carnival where we have Level based abilities, status effects, monsters strenghts and weaknesses, and all that good stuff. And one time to fit regular group gameplay where people have their rotation, fixed skills and everything we usually do. Oh and, please, don't forget about the fact that the players are able to choose 24 abilities and swap them at will to make their own set of skills, that need to be taken into account when balancing everything.
Dev Team: ... But S-sir... We already stuggle with balancing two or three new regular jobs every expansion... How are we supposed to pull that off?
Yoshida: I have no clue, but the players on the forums are saying that it's easy. So just do it. Pretty simple.


I love that "but it's easy!" argument so much.

[Mooga]

I think we should try the system first and then see how it plays until 5.0.
Then the best choice would be give feedback on how to place BLU in the trinity/raid environment.

There is ways. Also SE listens what we say.

I would like to get rid of the trinity all together as pretty much all content now a days is just DPS with little healing/tanking.

My only concern is, 5.0 comes in and BLU stays on lvl 50 and doesn't advance anything.
As in becomes a system that is kinda "forgotten" or not updated. Being limited wont get the same attention as the other classes/jobs.

I would love to do PVP, Roulettes, and Extremes with it.

[Elerus]

I am honestly baffled that they didn't look at their "limited job" concept and say: "OK, this is a controversial new system that we've never attempted before. Our track record with new concepts have been met with muted responses in the past. So we'll make a new FFXIV-exclusive job called 'Aethermancer' that uses this system."

I refuse to believe a company as large as Square with so many eyes and ears could be as tone deaf to not understand that MANY people would want to main Blue Mage and that making it a "half job" would be nothing less than a slap in the face.

This same uproar would have occurred had they chosen Red Mage, Dragoon, or Warrior for this system.

Instead, they could have given us this new solo content AND we could have gotten Blue Mage as a fully-fledged class. It gets weary to hear these multi-million dollar companies complain they "don't have the resources". That excuse didn't (and isn't) flying with Blizzard and their abysmal "Battle for Azeroth" expansion which feels like Legion 0.5 and Square should not be allowed to wriggle off the same hook.

[GrumbleBeard]

After watching people talk (mostly complain) for years about how BLU would/should/shouldn't/couldn't be implemented, it's been pretty clear that they would never be able to please the players.

Calling it a "limited class" was a mistake because it gives everyone this idea that it will be changed to what they want, a normal class. Just look at it as being a separate brand of content, take it for what it is, and prepare yourself for Beastmaster pokemon battles in 6.0.

[Skyskip]

After watching people talk (mostly complain) for years about how BLU would/should/shouldn't/couldn't be implemented, it's been pretty clear that they would never be able to please the players.

Calling it a "limited class" was a mistake because it gives everyone this idea that it will be changed to what they want, a normal class. Just look at it as being a separate brand of content, take it for what it is, and prepare yourself for Beastmaster pokemon battles in 6.0.

This is probably the way to please the least amount of players, however. Everyone would have expected it to be adapted the same way literally every other job has been adapted. Instead they put in a tremendous amount of effort for what is literally a dead-end job.

Limited Job is an accurate title for what it is...an inferior version of a normal job.

[Shougun]

I think it would be interesting to see some jobs have different behaviors for progression, but at least for jobs that seem to be for combat I believe they should be viable for all combat (imo). I would be fine if Blue Mages had to gather a specific set of skills to queue for content uniquely different than the other jobs (and those specific skills are not gated behind patches, other non-queue required skills could be though) - meanwhile some side / solo / special features / mechanics and skills can be included and locked up. So Blue Mage has to gather stuff, and perhaps can follow a different level path (usually plays solo in open world), but in the end can play the same end game content as everyone else (not having to wait many patches till the content is no longer valuable).

Perhaps another example is that puppet master requires you to maintain and craft your puppet but once all that is said and done they too can join end content, and perhaps for balance reasons certain skills/puppet parts wont cross into that realm but so be it. (Those pieces of puppet that are viable/allowed for end content are made available at the same rate as other normal jobs - but unique solo pieces can be made at SE's own rate to enhance and "play" with the job). Or a transforming job turns into giant bosses when solo-queud cause SE thought it'd be cool. Summoner gets solo queue limit breaks that are really pissed off egis, hush hush no one will know you're destroying the planet if you do it behind their backs lol. A fairly weak example of "because we can" weird play I always wanted to see with jobs was Dragoon being able to hyper jump (as in the space bar button can charge up and just be a better jump than other players), with places that they can take advantage of just because they're super mobile (well with flying the desire is less interesting now but I still want to see them be able to do it just cause).

Certainty having a special approach makes a hard to balance equation even harder- so I don't think it's easy to design a fully featured job that can inspire a unique system and still be viable for balanced content but... I can't help feel a bit sad I wont get to play Blue Mage in a group (via duty finder/current end game). Although I'd still try it out, can't say I wouldn't enjoy being able to solo and cast crazy spells - I'm sure I would! ... but there would always be an itch "wish I could play this where it counted". Perhaps if blue mage gets a skill that increases drop chances they could be at least be a solid glamour hunting solo job, "time to collect my primal mounts". At least then, if they can't enjoy current viable content they'd be viable "old content" sweepers. Have fun gathering stuff so you can go into dungeons with significant less of a grind (don't need to run something 100 times to get that rare drop) and get good (glamour / side job) stuff while being OP.

I guess finally a worse example would be I was okay with consumables in the older mmorpgs, or taking care of your pet in vanilla WoW (iirc that's not a thing anymore, pet always happy) - so I don't mind if Blue Mages have a few hurdles to suffer through to be unique and suitable but I would really hope that "unable to duty finder" turns into can use duty finder if you do "this". Hope everything works out! (Even if its not what I want, still I hope it works out into something neat and valuable - we'll see soon~).

[Vunak]

Yoshida: Alright everyone, I want you to balance all of these 49 abilities TWICE. One time to fit the Carnival where we have Level based abilities, status effects, monsters strenghts and weaknesses, and all that good stuff. And one time to fit regular group gameplay where people have their rotation, fixed skills and everything we usually do. Oh and, please, don't forget about the fact that the players are able to choose 24 abilities and swap them at will to make their own set of skills, that need to be taken into account when balancing everything.
Dev Team: ... But S-sir... We already stuggle with balancing two or three new regular jobs every expansion... How are we supposed to pull that off?
Yoshida: I have no clue, but the players on the forums are saying that it's easy. So just do it. Pretty simple.


I love that "but it's easy!" argument so much.

Nobody asked for them to balance 49 abilities. Nobody asked for 49 abilities. Everyone that has asked for BLU has anticipated the standard fair of abilities that every class gets. Hell the amount of abilities FFXIV has already exceeds most BLU's in every FF game to date on spells. Most BLU throughout the FF series only had about 20-25 spells. The only one I can think of that would exceed the ability number we have in XIV is BLU in XI, well aside for BLU in XIV. Which XI is a good example of a BLU being implemented with all the standard fair BLU gameplay without breaking the game.

It seems more like they are working harder than necessary to make it broken.

[Fyce]

Everyone that has asked for BLU has anticipated the standard fair of abilities that every class gets.

[citation needed]