Any chance that all raids could become relevant in some capacity in the future?

[Ventimus]

"Why do YOU want to do the raids the proper way? Answer that question and you know why other people might wanna do the same - you're not so special and alone in your wish to do the content properly.
Is it difficult and annoying to find people for that?
Yes. Yes, it is."

That first part is all the reasoning I need in wanting this. It shouldn't be difficult and annoying to find others wanting to do content that they already pay for. I'm a rather hardcore MMO raider, newer to FFXIV but not to raiding. I've managed large guilds and large 16M raid teams for harder level content, and I've never had any sort of difficulty organizing people to clear content through progression. I respect that people want the focus to be on the new raids, hence why I suggested the newer content still provide better rewards than older content. I'm perfectly aware that I'm not going to get people together to do Savage progression for old raids. And I don't like that. Again, how can giving other people incentive to do older content and be rewarded for it be anything but good for the health of the game? Would you do it? No? I know that plenty of players who are new to Eorzea such as myself may very much want to experience old content properly scaled and providing some sort of reward upon successful progression.

And also, they would know better than to think that allowing us to do older content is a reason not to provide newer content. You're telling me you're fine with farming four bosses for a quarter of a year, and then never touching them again? Making older content rewarding for players to fill their time with is nothing but a positive in my eyes, and I fail to see how you could think otherwise and not due to lack of trying. I'm trying to understand what your line of thought it, but I'm not getting anywhere. It is NOT difficult to just scale rewards from older raids, so it wouldn't exactly eat up development time or anything. And it would allow players like myself to properly enjoy the work that Square Enix has provided.

[Ventimus]

I answered that question in the post above, I hope.

And now, you cant do group content on your own. But since you mentioned Alpha NM and wanting to spice that up, let me repeat: You cant do this content in DF either. You need a static for that. And for a static the incentive might very well be to enjoy the content and each others company. I get that extra gear would be and additional reward and might make it easier to find people, but I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that you'd still need to find those people by yourself, make a schedulde, have everyone show up at raidtimes... and not only queue up with the DF.
And since you need a static, you're back at the same problem: If current Savage gives you better gear than old Coil - why isnt your static running that for the actual good stuff?

Current NM is casual DF content and offers rewards that reflect that.
You're lumping Coil and Alexander Savage in with that, when its not. Its content that - for the most parts - requires a static when you wanna do it properly. And if you already went through the trouble of getting a static, might aswell do the new stuff.

...so you're back at square one, with no one doing Coil and Alexander Savage.
Unless they want to to see the fights itself.

Okay, I'm not sure where your assumption comes that I don't want or think it should require a static. I never said that, and more content for statics to form for is also a good thing. For example, in SWTOR NiM raids still require raid teams, they just provide relevant gear and are properly scaled to level cap. Why would anyone want to be on a static doing old content just for poops and giggles? There is no incentive for players to do old content, and I hate to say it but in MMO's unrewarding content is content that doesn't get played.

[Vidu]

That first part is all the reasoning I need in wanting this. It shouldn't be difficult and annoying to find others wanting to do content that they already pay for. I'm a rather hardcore MMO raider, newer to FFXIV but not to raiding. I've managed large guilds and large 16M raid teams for harder level content, and I've never had any sort of difficulty organizing people to clear content through progression. I respect that people want the focus to be on the new raids, hence why I suggested the newer content still provide better rewards than older content. I'm perfectly aware that I'm not going to get people together to do Savage progression for old raids. And I don't like that. Again, how can giving other people incentive to do older content and be rewarded for it be anything but good for the health of the game? Would you do it? No? I know that plenty of players who are new to Eorzea such as myself may very much want to experience old content properly scaled and providing some sort of reward upon successful progression.

And also, they would know better than to think that allowing us to do older content is a reason not to provide newer content. You're telling me you're fine with farming four bosses for a quarter of a year, and then never touching them again? Making older content rewarding for players to fill their time with is nothing but a positive in my eyes, and I fail to see how you could think otherwise and not due to lack of trying. I'm trying to understand what your line of thought it, but I'm not getting anywhere. It is NOT difficult to just scale rewards from older raids, so it wouldn't exactly eat up development time or anything. And it would allow players like myself to properly enjoy the work that Square Enix has provided.

Funny how you asked wether or not other people would like to see this aswell and now dont like to hear the answer "No, I dont."

Since you're new, you missed the backtracking-marathon that were the ARR and HW relics - grats on that! - but that pretty much made me not want to see any more backtracking.

I'm telling you I'm fine with this old content not offering any rewards beside the content itself - maybe the problem here is that I dont raid to raise my ilvl, but because I enjoy the fights and challenges (and the glamour - more than the ilvl) and I dont want to be "forced" to go back to do content that my static learned and cleared 3 years ago instead of spending half a year with 4 bosses that are at least new content.
And dont tell me "You dont have to, if you dont want to!" - because that means that the rewards arent worth it.

Lets take the current ilvl and gear as an example!
Lets say they add new Coil-gear at an ilvl of 360 (First Coil), 370 (Second Coil) and 380 (Final Coil), with a weekly lockout.
Would that be a true incentive for people to do this content?
I dont think so - there are easier ways to get gear of that ilvl; specially with the only really intresting one being 380, locked behind Final Coil - which in no way compares to the difficulty of Alpha NM when done synched. I know you havent done it. But trust me: It. doesnt. compare. You wont be able to clear it in DF. I tried. Just for fun. Got in, didnt even managed to survive the first minute of the fight.
So you'd need a static to get... 380 gear? That you can craft or buy of the market board or get from Eureka?

I'm "against" this because I'm trying to tell you that it doesnt/wouldnt work. And because I want to see less backtracking and more new content.

...and if "many people" want to experience this content properly, then it shouldnt be that hard to find like minded people, right?
Let me tell you something: During a content drought last year - between raidcycles - my static went back and cleared some Coil at minimum ilvl. We're also doing that on occassion with people who are new to the game, joined the FC and would now like to do it properly. We recently went back to get dyeable tank-coats from A8S for a friend and myself.
Maybe I'm lucky with my FC/friends/static, but I'm very much convinced that this is a question of finding the right people - not the right rewards. I like that this is content that I can go back to when I feel like it (...I just blackmail my static...) instead of content that I have to do yet again for half a year, every week.

[Ventimus]

Funny how you asked wether or not other people would like to see this aswell and now dont like to hear the answer "No, I dont."

Since you're new, you missed the backtracking-marathon that were the ARR and HW relics - grats on that! - but that pretty much made me not want to see any more backtracking.

I'm telling you I'm fine with this old content not offering any rewards beside the content itself - maybe the problem here is that I dont raid to raise my ilvl, but because I enjoy the fights and challenges (and the glamour - more than the ilvl) and I dont want to be "forced" to go back to do content that my static learned and cleared 3 years ago instead of spending half a year with 4 bosses that are at least new content.
And dont tell me "You dont have to, if you dont want to!" - because that means that the rewards arent worth it.

I'm "against" this because I'm trying to tell you that it doesnt/wouldnt work. And because I want to see less backtracking and more new content.

...and if "many people" want to experience this content properly, then it shouldnt be that hard to find like minded people, right?
Let me tell you something: During a content drought last year - between raidcycles - my static went back and cleared some Coil at minimum ilvl. We're also doing that on occassion with people who are new to the game, joined the FC and would now like to do it properly. We recently went back to get dyeable tank-coats from A8S for a friend and myself.
Maybe I'm lucky with my FC/friends/static, but I'm very much convinced that this is a question of finding the right people - not the right rewards. I like that this is content that I can go back to when I feel like it (...I just blackmail my static...) instead of content that I have to do yet again for half a year, every week.

Mainly because your reasoning as to why you don't want to see it is inadequate, and mostly based on your lack of faith in the developers ability to handle it. So, yeah, I don't like that answer.

And I've told you already, I'm not asking for content to be doable in DF. I could care less. More content for statics IS GOOD for the health of MMOs. I've explained to you that doing this properly doesn't take away development time, it's as simple as adjusting numbers.

And I've also told you that content that is not rewarding doesn't get done. I'm not sure what is so difficult about this concept to grasp. Basically, the way this is coming across is that you don't want it because you've already done it. So screw all the newcomers, shoulda been here sooner? I don't like that stance either, quite frankly. I don't know about how much experience you have in MMOs, but its quite literally the same in all of them. Content that is not rewarding gets ignored, period. And the fact of the matter is, that regardless of how fun or interesting a fight may be, if there's no reward for the effort then people won't try.

[Vidu]

Mainly because your reasoning as to why you don't want to see it is inadequate, and mostly based on your lack of faith in the developers ability to handle it. So, yeah, I don't like that answer.

It is adequate to me and I tried to explain to you why.
Probably should have stuck with "No, I would not like to see this" without further reasons - would have been enough of an answer to your original questions, even if its not an answer you like.

[Deceptus]

I'd prefer the Dev's focus to be on the future, not the past.

[whiskeybravo]

Well, heated discussion aside, I don't think it would hurt the game to offer semi-relevant rewards for completing old content. I actually wanted to run through the old coils on my alt (I was going to solo as many as I could) but couldn't get passed getting gaol'd while trying to solo Titan HM lol.

I think they tried to make the older stuff accessible via raid roulettes, but as Vidu points out the old coils are not equal to new normal modes, and old savages aren't on the same level as current savages. I do think Vidu is jumping the gun a bit, I didn't get any impression that it would "force" people into completing old content for current rewards, just a little incentive to make it not so hard to find people willing to do it.

It'd also be a boon to newer players. When I was leveling up my alt there came a point where I couldn't even complete the story without farming dungeons for crap gear, so I just stopped playing it for a while. If the old raids gave, let's say tokens (make it easy and just be the same token for any raid cleared), to exchange for "entry level gear" (what's entry for Alpha NM, 350?) to help gear up along the way it'd totally be worth it. Get gear for alt characters/jobs/new players/etc and keep the old content populated.

[Ventimus]

I'd prefer the Dev's focus to be on the future, not the past.

Scaling the fights and giving a different drop isn't exactly pulling away the developers focus, though. But whatever, it seems that nobody else cares about giving incentives to doing old content; which is fine, the new content is good. I'd just like to be able to properly experience the content that was before my time in this game.

[Ventimus]

Well, heated discussion aside, I don't think it would hurt the game to offer semi-relevant rewards for completing old content. I actually wanted to run through the old coils on my alt (I was going to solo as many as I could) but couldn't get passed getting gaol'd while trying to solo Titan HM lol.

I think they tried to make the older stuff accessible via raid roulettes, but as Vidu points out the old coils are not equal to new normal modes, and old savages aren't on the same level as current savages. I do think Vidu is jumping the gun a bit, I didn't get any impression that it would "force" people into completing old content for current rewards, just a little incentive to make it not so hard to find people willing to do it.

It'd also be a boon to newer players. When I was leveling up my alt there came a point where I couldn't even complete the story without farming dungeons for crap gear, so I just stopped playing it for a while. If the old raids gave, let's say tokens (make it easy and just be the same token for any raid cleared), to exchange for "entry level gear" (what's entry for Alpha NM, 350?) to help gear up along the way it'd totally be worth it. Get gear for alt characters/jobs/new players/etc and keep the old content populated.

Yeah, it was not my intention to suggest that the old content be forced down players throats. I am sure that there are plenty of people who may have certain bosses that they never want to see again, as I know that I do from other games. But it'd certainly be cool to be able to put together a group and work on some of the older stuff that was before my time ingame and be able to possibly use the progression of the older stuff as filler between raid tiers. That may not be something that everyone is interested in, but I'd wager if it was implemented that there'd be some players choosing to work on older stuff.

[Dualgunner]

I'm obviously excluding glamour, but something that SWTOR did that I think FFXIV should implement as well is making all normal mode raids offer the same base level, entry raid gear, with the older Savage content offering slightly better gear, and the newest Savage raids offering the BiS gear. The reason I think this would be a good idea is because I really enjoy the raids in this game, and I hate that they don't really get used once the next update comes out. What are the odds that this is something that could be implemented in the future? And aside from whether it could happen, would you like for something like this to happen?

Well, Deltascape and Sigmascape Savage are actually still relevant for people looking to get gear for Unending Coil and Weapon's Refrain, respectively.

Would I like it to happen...I dunno. On the one hand, I'd like for more players to have more reasons to go back and do old Savage content. On the other hand, I don't want to end up in a situation similar to WoW's where you need to raid a bunch of different tiers to get relevant gear to the current tier (secondhand account). I think having the mount at the end of the Savage tier is the best incentive; perhaps reinstate the need to at least accomplish prior Savage floors once to unlock the next floor permanently? I dunno.