The whale mount is up on Mogstation

[alimdia]

Actually, this is disingenuous itself because you're still assuming all these cash shop items will be funneled back into the game. They won't. Companies will simply stop making them entirely. As stated in my post above, a greedy company doesn't start giving away stuff for free once people stop buying it. They stop producing to begin with since it's no longer profitable. This Whale exists because it was going on the cash shop and would earn SE $30 for each purchase. Take away said profit and why do you expect them to still work on something that no longer has any financial benefit to them? Saying it used to be apart of our sub assumes content is being cut to be sold back to us. If something was never designed in the first place, it cannot be cut.

Now do some companies abuse this practice? Of course. In fact, since you mentioned lootboxes, I'll point to Star Wars: Battlefront II and how EA lost several millions because people discovered they were intentionally screwing character progression in order to incentivize lootboxes. For comparison sake, in FFXIV, we occasionally have an exclusive mount which is functionally identical to every other mount in the game. Star Wars released with a grind that took over 4,000 hours to obtain everything. You could take every single grind in all of FFXIV combined and not spend that much time on them. What comes down to is many people do not necessarily mind cosmetic micro-transactions or DLC they feel is worth the investment. Should a company get out of hand, the playerbase will bite back. Enough people don't feel SE's approach of purely cosmetic items is a big deal.

Now you may not like that approach, but that's a difference of opinion and nothing more. People who do aren't naive, gullible or wasteful. They simply have more money than you (general) and are willing to spend it on luxurious other people either can't afford or don't feel its worth their money.

The thing is that no one is asking them to give anything for free, this is not a free to play game, absolutely nothing we get here is free, we are paying for everything.

I have no reason to believe the plans to make a moogle mount or whale mount would be discarded if there was no cash shop, it's not like development of the base game depends on the cash shop, because again this isn't a free to play game.

Not necessarily at all since market trends are a constantly revolving door and the people buying from the cash shop haven't influenced anything that already wasn't in place from the past, this isn't a completely new trend at all that has recently surfaced like you're making it out to be. It's just a more common placed one now since people who have the extra income voluntarily want to spend it on things they they like and see. No one would buy anything if they didn't like what they saw. Micro transactions have been a thing since Facebook's inception of Farmville from 2009 (maybe sooner than that), and before that lootboxes have been a thing since 2004 (maybe sooner than that). This trend has been going on for at least 14 years minimum.

And sorry to say, but the needs of many outweigh the few that don't want it. People need to let go of the past, we're not going back to it.

You don't have to pay a sub to play farmville though, none of facebook games had a sub, they were f2p that depended on the cash shop to exist.

What I can tell you is that we used to buy old event items before they decided to move that to the cash shop. We used to be able to sell old event items in the market and now we can't. We didn't even get a chance to get old event furniture if you already participated in the relevant event and got the achievement because the cash shop got in the way, and now the frequency of cash shop addition has accelerated.

I don't know what you mean about "the need of many", who exactly needs microtransactions?

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't know what you mean about "the need of many", who exactly needs microtransactions?

The people who want to spend $30 on a mount obviously? Clearly, what they want outweighs more than what you want or we wouldn't have a cash shop. It's just simple logic. You may not need it, but somewhere, someone does and that's why the Cash Shop is still thriving, and why people against it are probably outnumbered.

There's more of a surplus for people in-demand of said items, than there is for not needing it.

[Alleo]

That WoW token someone can buy with in-game gold? Someone had to buy it from Blizzard with rl money to be able to sell it to you.

So the whole "See, you can get everything in WoW with gold" isn't true because at some point, someone else has to spend rl money in order for it to happen. It's basically how they fought RMT.

My point was that you can still get everything from their cash shop without paying a single dollar. Of course others have to pay for this but at least this gives both sides an advantage. Those that have more rl money can get gold easier and those that have less or dont want to spent rl money on such items can just pay with ingame currency. So even in that part they are better. And again lets not forget my other points: Less items in the cash shop even though it exists longer, and an app that was completely free with way more functions.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The thing is that no one is asking them to give anything for free, this is not a free to play game, absolutely nothing we get here is free, we are paying for everything.

I have no reason to believe the plans to make a moogle mount or whale mount would be discarded if there was no cash shop, it's not like development of the base game depends on the cash shop, because again this isn't a free to play game.

The point is they wouldn't be plans to make a moogle or whale mount to begin with. They just wouldn't exist. Micro-transactions and DLC are typically developed for the sole purpose of profit hence why it's either a separate team entirely working on it or they wait until a game is certified gold. Since SE takes the former approach, if the Cash Shop didn't exist, that team would be put on another project.

And there are plenty of people in this very thread who have outright said they think the mounts from the cash shop should be available in-game. Let's not get into semantics about "free" or "apart of the subscription." They mean the same given the provided context. What it boils down to is a lot of people seem to think these amounts would be available through other means if only the dastardly cash shop didn't exist. And it very rarely works out that way.

Cash Shop already existed by the time the second ARR Christmas Event came.

But the new ARR items were put on the Cash Shop immediately. The only Seasonal Event items ever available in-game after the event itself were old 1.x items.

[Emstidor]

My point was that you can still get everything from their cash shop without paying a single dollar. Of course others have to pay for this but at least this gives both sides an advantage. Those that have more rl money can get gold easier and those that have less or dont want to spent rl money on such items can just pay with ingame currency. So even in that part they are better. And again lets not forget my other points: Less items in the cash shop even though it exists longer, and an app that was completely free with way more functions.

The thing is, if you're razzed by a $30 mount on the Mogstation, but are fine with someone else buying $30 worth of mog shop credit that you can buy with your gil and get the whale yourself, then complaining about this mount right now just circles back to looking like the real issue is envy of those who can/will spend money to get the mount when you can't/won't.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

I don't know what you mean about "the need of many", who exactly needs microtransactions?

Unpopular opinion: microtransactions are infinitely better than the ludicrous requirements they've put on some of the in-game mounts (Seasonal Feast exclusive mounts, Centurio Tiger, Astraphope(?), Gold feather mounts, 3000 commendation mount) and I'd prefer mogstation over those in-game requirements. I wouldn't be surprised if many thought similarly to me too. I'd be of the side that if they're gonna put stuff in-game that has ridiculous unlock requirements, just stick it in mogstation instead or have a mogstation option alongside it.

Beyond that, playing devil's advocate using a good friend of mine as an example, people who only have a few hours a day or even a week to play but still heavily enjoy the game they're playing can be fans of microtransactions. If it wasn't for the jump + story skip, I would have never been able to convince a friend to start playing. She also enjoys games where she can spend the cost of a single day's lunch to make significant progress during the times she does get to play, rather than feeling like she made no progress at all.

While they don't <need> it, there are people who love them because they make enough money that their time is more worth than their cash is.

[Ilan]

Careful, this sounds dangerously close to a claim that compulsive buyers don't exist.

Of course they do exist but its not that everyone who spends money on his/her hobby is a compulsive buyer.

[Skivvy]

The thing is, if you're razzed by a $30 mount on the Mogstation, but are fine with someone else buying $30 worth of mog shop credit that you can buy with your gil and get the whale yourself, then complaining about this mount right now just circles back to looking like the real issue is envy of those who can/will spend money to get the mount when you can't/won't.

How is that envy? Some people just don't want to spend additional money on a game for whatever reason. This just allows those who don't mind spending the extra cash to buy an item they can sell, which then allows those who prefer to farm in-game the option to do so. While you still have microtransactions, it helps satisfy both groups.

I've not played WoW, so can't speak to their system, but Archeage does this as well (granted this is a f2p game). You can buy their "Apex" for cash, which turns into credits when used in game. I had a premium account for ages for free, and could also use it to buy cash shop goodies when I wanted. Granted I would generally just buy the costumes with $$, but it's nice to have the option.

[Jandor]

I've played games where people didn't think they own everything in the game just because they pay a sub.

I doubt it.

[Skivvy]

I doubt it.

I've seen that sentiment on the forums here before, and I'm pretty sure a couple of them are in this thread.