Is it weird that I like Zenos as a villain?

[Edax]

I liked him! I was dig characters like him who just trounce the main protagonist and co and puts them in their place. I actually wish to know more about Zenos and if a gunblader job class were ever established in FFXIV, I'd hope to his gear will be added to the game as glamour so I could dress up like him. Heck, I'd go so far as to make a character as close as I can get to his appearance if all that happened.

I thought that was dumb. Even Captain Madison from Sastasha can trounce the player if they fought him mono e mono. The game from the very start has conditioned us to fight bosses with a party, so having to fight a tough boss one on one establishes nothing.


And it's a stereotypical anime villain setup. "I'm so powerful, I don't have to care." Or "Your 1000 years too early to face me!" No reason for why he's powerful, no backstory for why he's so sadistic, no reason why he's got the loyalty of so many disloyal ashats. I can't even say he's two dimensional. Just another insane person that's been given power in the world because we needed a bad guy to do bad things.
"He's the most diplomatic man I've ever met! Promote him to Ambassador at once!" - Probably Zenos


Lady Iceheart made a better villain because she was three dimensional. She had motivations, beliefs and could be reasoned with. She wasn't all about power or destroying the world. Some may even debate if she was a villain. That's the mark of better writing.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I thought that was dumb. Even Captain Madison from Sastasha can trounce the player if they fought him mono e mono. The game from the very start has conditioned us to fight bosses with a party, so having to fight a tough boss one on one establishes nothing.


And it's a stereotypical anime villain setup. "I'm so powerful, I don't have to care." Or "Your 1000 years too early to face me!" No reason for why he's powerful, no backstory for why he's so sadistic, no reason why he's got the loyalty of so many disloyal ashats. I can't even say he's two dimensional. Just another insane person that's been given power in the world because we needed a bad guy to do bad things.
"He's the most diplomatic man I've ever met! Promote him to Ambassador at once!" - Probably Zenos


Lady Iceheart made a better villain because she was three dimensional. She had motivations, beliefs and could be reasoned with. She wasn't all about power or destroying the world. Some may even debate if she was a villain. That's the mark of better writing.

We're given a reason why he's powerful, though. It's the Resonant. Remember how Fordola could auto-predict attacks coming her way by virtue of her magic eye? Same reason Zenos is basically untouchable until the level gap closes. That's why Yugiri trying to assassinate him failed.

It's not really ever said one way or another, but I'd be inclined to believe that Zenos has the Resonant active 100% of the time whenever he's out and about with his helmet on.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

I thought that was dumb. Even Captain Madison from Sastasha can trounce the player if they fought him mono e mono. The game from the very start has conditioned us to fight bosses with a party, so having to fight a tough boss one on one establishes nothing.


And it's a stereotypical anime villain setup. "I'm so powerful, I don't have to care." Or "Your 1000 years too early to face me!" No reason for why he's powerful, no backstory for why he's so sadistic, no reason why he's got the loyalty of so many disloyal ashats. I can't even say he's two dimensional. Just another insane person that's been given power in the world because we needed a bad guy to do bad things.
"He's the most diplomatic man I've ever met! Promote him to Ambassador at once!" - Probably Zenos


Lady Iceheart made a better villain because she was three dimensional. She had motivations, beliefs and could be reasoned with. She wasn't all about power or destroying the world. Some may even debate if she was a villain. That's the mark of better writing.

This reasoning doesn't work because with the Sastacha captain....you just can't enter a dungeon under-leveled no matter what and only are allowed to go solo if you're unsynced above the level cap

In all solo instances however,the game always trained you that all enemies are at the same level as you even ones you're scripted to lose against......not Zenos though and it that helped emphasized the power he had over the Warrior of Light at the time and how,in story,the WoL worked his/her way up freeing both Ala Mhigo and Doma and gaining bit by bit enough strength that would culminate in the Battle with shinryu in the Royal Manigerie

[Edax]

This reasoning doesn't work because with the Sastacha captain....you just can't enter a dungeon under-leveled no matter what and only are allowed to go solo if you're unsynced above the level cap

In all solo instances however,the game always trained you that all enemies are at the same level as you even ones you're scripted to lose against......not Zenos though and it that helped emphasized the power he had over the Warrior of Light at the time and how,in story,the WoL worked his/her way up freeing both Ala Mhigo and Doma and gaining bit by bit enough strength that would culminate in the Battle with shinryu in the Royal Manigerie

And yet when you confront a boss, even a story boss, most of the time you assemble a party out of nowhere to fight them. Yet for some reason, you don't get a party when you fight Zenos. There's no distinction why Zenos gets special treatment.
For example, when we fight that Ascian when Minfilia was kidnapped, when did we canonically have time to find a party?


And I as I said, it's the typical shonen anime junk of "Your 1000 years too early to fight me". So what, next expansion we get wowed by a boss that's level 80? Am I really suppose to be so impressed?

[MetalSnakeXI1]

And yet when you confront a boss, even a story boss, most of the time you assemble a party out of nowhere to fight them. Yet for some reason, you don't get a party when you fight Zenos. There's no distinction why Zenos gets special treatment.
For example, when we fight that Asian when Minfilia was kidnapped, when did we canonically have time to find a party?


And I as I said, it's the typical shonen anime junk of "Your 1000 years too early to fight me". So what, next expansion we get wowed by a boss that's level 80? Am I really suppose to be so impressed?

No one said you're supposed to,I'm just giving my own reasons.

I'm not disrespecting your opinion,I just find myself unable to agree with it.

Besides,it would be boring,at least from a story-telling perspective,to have villains that you can beat immediately on your first encounter with them.Cuz that's also a "shonen anime junk" troupe thing to do....

[Edax]

No one said you're supposed to,I'm just giving my own reasons.

I'm not disrespecting your opinion,I just find myself unable to agree with it.

Besides,it would be boring,at least from a story-telling perspective,to have villains that you can beat immediately on your first encounter with them.

In most stories, you don't fight the final villain at the start of a story. In every circumstance, it's going to be a waste of time because the story just started.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

In most stories, you don't fight the final villain at the start of a story. In every circumstance, it's going to be a waste of time because the story just started.

Does every single story need to have the villain to set on their arse in their Dr.Claw esque chair cackling maniacally until the hero comes knocking at their door?

By that point the villain may as well be Bowser and once you reach that point the story's villain would either end up one of two things:He'd need some intruiging plot behind them or be a comic relief no different than the likes of Bowser and Dr.Wily

Again all of this is just my personal opinion not objective stuff.

[Edax]

Does every single story need to have the villain to set on their arse in their Dr.Claw esque chair cackling maniacally until the hero comes knocking at their door?

By that point the villain may as well be Bowser and once you reach that point the story's villain would either end up one of two things:He'd need some intruiging plot behind them or be a comic relief no different than the likes of Bowser and Dr.Wily

Again all of this is just my personal opinion not objective stuff.

Was it too much ask for an intriguing plot? It was interesting for me uncovering the history of Lady Iceheart and her Heretics. There was nothing to Zenos beyond the first impression.