What exactly IS a White Mage?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

It's funny because using the same numbers on FFLogs but looking at every job in the game as a whole, you can see which jobs are really suffering in the non-meta standing and WHM, despite being non-meta, is definitely not suffering in terms of participation.

It's very unfortunate, but the truth. WHM still overall sees more use in raiding than AST, probably because the majority of people, who are -70% and below, don't exactly care about optimizing and would just rather play what they want. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does give the impression that WHM is "fine"...

We're definitely not seeing any changes before 5.0 that's for sure. I can only hope the silence means that their planning a slight overhaul. But something tells me that's a fat chance.

[Risvertasashi]

WHM still overall sees more use in raiding than AST, probably because the majority of people, who are -70% and below, don't exactly care about optimizing and would just rather play what they want.

A key element of this is population. If more healers overall were available, more people would be happy to lock their PF slots to AST or demand static members switch. This might still happen later this patch cycle, when people care less about gear drops/books and view it as pointless to enter without an optimal comp.

I just want to reiterate this because while yeah, people are still stubbornly playing WHM. Well. Counting on party/raid leaders' fear of not being able to find a healer is a very precarious position.

[Magnedeus]

We need a white wizard. In ff1 you start as a white mage and you upgrade to a white wizard later on. But that's just my opinion.

[Dualgunner]

We need a white wizard. In ff1 you start as a white mage and you upgrade to a white wizard later on. But that's just my opinion.

White Wizard probably would just suffer the same fate against Professor or Time Mage.

[Acidblood]

... WHMs core kit is significantly better suited for the non-savage raids or non-extreme trials where mechanics won't flatten players immediately and the GCD heals will have more significance.

...

...now look at that list above and you'll see what those strengths mean to any uncoordinated PuG group, trap farm PFs, DFing for weeky loots in Omega or Ivalice, new players who don't understand mechanics, etc. etc.

...

TLDR: WHM isn't a weak job. WHMs role as a healer is heavy and sustainable HPS. WHMs strengths, however, don't fit the high tier coordinated raid groups.

I know this is more playstyle preference, but even in 'uncoordinated' / non-savage content I feel like WHM is lacking in several areas...

1. With no AoE shields or mitigation, as a WHM it feels like all you can do most of the time is wait and react (and WHM isn't even very good at that; see 2.)... both SCH and AST can shield (at will) and mitigate (not to mention have their own versions of regen), which, IMO, gives them both a much more pro-active playstyle, and as the saying goes, prevention is better than cure.

2. WHM lacks flexibility and usage of instant cast / oGCD abilities... Maybe it's just playing SCH for most of 4.X but being able to Lustrate (1s) up to 3 people back-to-back or pop Indom (20s) while moving (up to 3 shared times per 45s) is far more useful and flexible than Tetra (60/40s), Bene (180s), and Assize (60/40s) (so 1, sometimes 2, single target and 1 AoE per 40s at best)... and in chaotic PuGs being able to instantly heal as needed (and for significant amounts) is often a literal lifesaver.

3. WHM just feels like more work (AST too I guess)... yes WHM can have 100% regen up time (compared to SCH 33%), but it's a constant pain to keep up for what may only be 1 or 2 players getting hit when they shouldn't be... Say what you like about SCH fairy, but as spot healers they are absolutely pro and can save you a lot of GCDs.

4. Even Holy doesn't feel like enough anymore... In 3.X I used to love WHM due to Regen + Holy spam... but with SCH getting the likes of Excogitation, AST getting Earthly Star, and WHM getting Lilies :facepalm: .... yeah, sorry, but WHM lost 4.X (badly) in terms of fun / useful tools.

TLDR; IMO 4.X WHM just isn't really good for much of anything outside of shear healing throughput over time, and that's just not something even the 'uncoordinated' encounters of FFXIV demand very much of.

WHM needs an identity, and an overhaul to match it, but until the devs give SCH a real weakness and stop making AST a clone with extras (or change up the healing paradigm) I'm not sure WHM will ever see much daylight again.

[Neela]

I know this is more playstyle preference, but even in 'uncoordinated' / non-savage content I feel like WHM is lacking in several areas...

1. With no AoE shields or mitigation, as a WHM it feels like all you can do most of the time is wait and react (and WHM isn't even very good at that; see 2.)... both SCH and AST can shield (at will) and mitigate (not to mention have their own versions of regen), which, IMO, gives them both a much more pro-active playstyle, and as the saying goes, prevention is better than cure.

im not with u on this point...out of savage whm is actually the most comfortable healer for dps... you can simple stack up 2-3 reg-skills, shield with DB pre pull and react with tetra, assis or bene if needed - but yet alone those 3 reg skills without the ogcd-support provide massiv time to dps... I honestly can't follow your arguments for sch and ast here. savage/trials is another story tho... but dngs? whm is more than good to go for ini runs : o

[Grimoire-M]

im not with u on this point...out of savage whm is actually the most comfortable healer for dps... you can simple stack up 2-3 reg-skills, shield with DB pre pull and react with tetra, assis or bene if needed - but yet alone those 3 reg skills without the ogcd-support provide massiv time to dps... I honestly can't follow your arguments for sch and ast here. savage/trials is another story tho... but dngs? whm is more than good to go for ini runs : o

The only thing WHM has going for it in Dungeons is Holy. Every other healer has better tools in a dungeon outside of that one niche, and AST treads on it well enough with CO. None of their healing or mitigation cooldowns disappear just because they're solo. For all my complaints about SCH not having an AoE stun, the more I play it the easier it gets to compensate for even the worst tanks in that content, because I'm not panicking and over-leaning on Lustrate when spacing it out with Adlo/physick will do.

Holy makes easy mode content even more easy mode. It has almost no bearing on raids unless SE actually pushes on AoE, which they have actively tried to avoid after people complained about Gordias, not realizing that A1/2S were actually fine in terms of design, just not numbers.

[Risvertasashi]

Can we not talk about dungeons?

Dungeons was the excuse for heavensward 3.4 WHM too.

So can we just accept that dungeon performance has no bearing on a class's viability, and talk about stuff that does impact viability?

[Ghishlain]

Can we not talk about dungeons?

Dungeons was the excuse for heavensward 3.4 WHM too.

So can we just accept that dungeon performance has no bearing on a class's viability, and talk about stuff that does impact viability?

Out of curiosity, which type of content and metric would you consider the best to discuss class viability? If dungeons and non-Savage is out, WHM is still perfectly viable under the premise that WHM literally had the highest DPS in UwU while it was the relevant content to complete. Everything from 50th percentile and onward had WHM as the highest DPS while still being able to heal the content. In fact, SCH had the lowest DPS of the three. It's not the same now as the only people doing Ultimate are those who have cleared Alphascape already but not Ultima, but WHM superiority in HPS and DPS requirements was there during patch 4.3.

It we are to look at WHM under the microscope of just Alphascape (Savage) only, I feel that's a pretty dim and narrow view of the WHM kit. I'd say looking at WHM's kit in any content that requires 8 players or more is the best range to look at.

WHM needs an identity, and an overhaul to match it, but until the devs give SCH a real weakness and stop making AST a clone with extras (or change up the healing paradigm) I'm not sure WHM will ever see much daylight again.

WHM does have an identity. It's the best triage healer of the three.

...it just a terrible identity given the way the content design for Savage and Ultimate leaves very little to actually triage. You're either flattened or you don't care about the damage. The WHM kit would gain popularity if the content design was different at that tier but I doubt we'll see a deviation. The best thing we can do with WHM is give it more flexibility in other ways that are desirable for the Savage and Ultimate raid scene.

[Risvertasashi]

It's not the same now as the only people doing Ultimate are those who have cleared Alphascape already but not Ultima, but WHM superiority in HPS and DPS requirements was there during patch 4.3.

Prior to 4.3 is prior to healer rebalancing, and not particularly relevant anymore.

It we are to look at WHM under the microscope of just Alphascape (Savage) only, I feel that's a pretty dim and narrow view of the WHM kit.

Yet this is where the meta comes from. This is why we're being asked to switch to/play AST.

Again, if you look only at easy content, no job this expac has needed buffs. DRK, BLM, SAM and so on could have been left exactly as they were.

WHM does have an identity. It's the best triage healer of the three.

No, it's not. I've tried to say this in a few different ways so let me try again...

In the early weeks of progression raiding with low gear levels, AST meets all of the hardest healchecks in the game with the same ease white mage does. While still doing more damage and throwing out raid buffs.

AST isn't struggling with MP, AST isn't struggling to heal prog parties, and so on and so forth. WHM isn't somehow better at healing.

And if you are really struggling, a RDM with MP support probably makes more difference than any particular healer choice. All healers suck when they have to hardcast rez, but all them have some tools to very slightly mitigate how much it sucks. Nothing compares to dualcast, though.