Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Brill_]

T The amount of players that have no idea how to play and just want a carry is overwhelming,

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad". Based on the players in this thread that are perfect, I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry. Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating. In 5 years, I've never run into the mythical ice mages this forum claims are everywhere.

They should make a server for all these players that never make mistakes. Then they can clear everything in one shot, never die and not have to play with us mere mortals that make mistakes. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

[Vahlnir]

None of what you've listed is a legitimate reason not to use flash when told to use flash in group content.

You're right, but you also have to consider that someone is genuinely new. Someone just starting out may not know how their class works exactly. So...a little patience goes a long way.

[Lastelli]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad".

Indeed. To me, a player that is pulling half the dps his/her job is capable of or lower, given correct execution of mechanics, is a bad player. And believe it or not, in any suzaku farm party I joined in the last 2 days, there were 1-2 players like that. That the rest of the party was good enough to carry them doesn't change the fact that they were unskilled players.
And if you're telling me that you don't find bad players in pug based on the above definition...you either have no idea how to assess a player's skill, or you are one of those bad players. Unless NA players are significantly more competent than EU players.

Though to be fair, the situation is particularly bad right now. Maybe a lot of casual players came back for patch 4.4 and they thought they were good enough for ex trials? Not sure, but anyway the average skill level feels very low right now.

[van_arn]

You're right, but you also have to consider that someone is genuinely new. Someone just starting out may not know how their class works exactly. So...a little patience goes a long way.

My entire point is a player that refuses to communicate with their party isn't even new, nor are they a player. They are nothing.

This is why the party decides to kick them to the curb. They refuse to participate, so they shouldn't be there.

[Daibunnie]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad". Based on the players in this thread that are perfect, I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry. Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating. In 5 years, I've never run into the mythical ice mages this forum claims are everywhere.

I pug all the content I do and I see a bunch of terrible players all the time in both normal and ex/savage. Your argument isn’t new and it just shows that you haven’t actually bothered reading the majority of the posts in this thread. No one here has stated they want perfection from any player, especially not in df roulette. Making a mistake is not the same as having a garbage rotation/playstyle. Forgetting a mechanic is a mistake. Someone using only ice skills as a blm is a bad player. In the short few months I’ve played this game, I’ve seen a countless number of bad players. Just yesterday alone, I saw a pld trying to tank without shield/sword oath while not using flash and continously lost aggro at level 50 content.

They should make a server for all these players that never make mistakes. Then they can clear everything in one shot, never die and not have to play with us mere mortals that make mistakes. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

If they did this, most of the player base would still be stuck on normal shinryu.

[Fhaerron]

You're right, but you also have to consider that someone is genuinely new. Someone just starting out may not know how their class works exactly. So...a little patience goes a long way.

No way what so ever to not know to not stack on stack markers or put your aoe bombs in people their faces in raids.

Also no way what so ever to not know how to use a combo or only using shield lob.

[HyoMinPark]

Based on the players in this thread that are perfect

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone in this thread has labeled themselves as perfect or above making mistakes.

I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry.

Pretty sure no one said anything like this as well. How many people in here have repeatedly said that they aren’t expecting 95th or 100th percentile play in dungeons, but just basic competency when it comes to one’s job, one’s role, and the fight mechanics? Quite a few. Why is it that everyone seems to ignore the “I’m not expecting perfect play” comments? Is it because it doesn’t fit the rhetoric you choose?

Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating. In 5 years, I've never run into the mythical ice mages this forum claims are everywhere.

I met an Ice Mage last week in V12N. Used nothing but Blizzard III and a few Blizzard IVs. Couple Thunders. Never touched a single Fire spell...except I think they used Fire III once. I still have the log for it.

They should make a server for all these players that never make mistakes. Then they can clear everything in one shot, never die and not have to play with us mere mortals that make mistakes. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

Nice strawman.

Again, no one here has said that people in dungeons have to be perfect. No one has said that people have to be perfect, period. They have said that they expect them to know how their job works, how their role works, and how the mechanics work. Basic competency is literally all most people have been asking for in this thread. Especially when you’re in level 70 content.

It’s unacceptable to end up with a DRK in V12N that doens’t use Shadow Wall, TBN, or Dark Mind for a single tankbuster; who doesn’t even seem like they know how to tank in general (this actually happened to me last night—the DPS spent more time tanking Omega-M [or me on AST because healer aggro] because this DRK would not use Provoke to Provoke it off of us). It’s unacceptable to get a WHM that refuses to use so much as a Regen in V11N, and that has to be asked to actually heal (I talked about this a few pages back). Both behaviors are beyond unacceptable when they spill over into EX or Savage. It’s unacceptable to get BRDs that won’t use their songs, or RDMs/SMNs that won’t Mana Shift healers or help Raise dead players if the healers are not in a position to do so, or a melee DPS that insists on just using 1-2-3 and nothing else (e.g., no Heavy Thrust, no oGCDs, no raid buffs like TA, etc.).

[Gallus]

It's odd seeing toxicity rear it's ugly head in FFXIV, it's definitely different than it was.

I have this impression too. Back when I started FFXIV it felt different. You'd go to Haukke Manor for the first time, you'd wipe when the adds appeared and everyone kept trying. No vote dismissing, no people questioning others skill, just 4 very motivated players trying to kill a boss. Or Brayflox, I remember the last boss could prove challenging if the tank failed to dodge the aoes or move the boss from the venom puddles. I remember clearing my first EX primals through DF and it was a really fun experience. Garuda and Ifrit didn't take many tries, but Titan at that time required a very good group, and it was sure exciting. The game was fresh back then and people were a lot more enthusiastic. Now I feel like a big part of the playerbase just keeps logging in to do their dailies, cap their tomes, water their flowers and enter their houses, but the fun factor is mostly gone, a lot of people always want to get everything done fast, and they grow extremely impatient the very moment they feel somebody is dragging them down. I think people should take breaks more often and not force themselves into playing FFXIV for so long, nothing is fun forever, and when you are repeteadly playing a game you are not having fun with anymore, your attitude,inevitably, grows bitter too.

[OurMom]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible.

Not 99%, but there's seriously more than normal here. Anyone that's played any other mmos at an average skill level and come here will tell you this game has the highest number of awful players ever. People have been saying that about this community since 2.0.

People complain about bads in all games but not to this extent because theres just so many.

[Rita1989]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad". Based on the players in this thread that are perfect, I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry. Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating.

No expects duty finder to get top ff logs but many dps can barely break 4k and that is with 370-380 gear which is way below what would be average.