Few close friends quit FFXIV, one wants to explain why, hopes SE improves the game

[Dzian]

The game has never at any point had 5+ million active players. Around 1.5 million active is the most its ever had so far, SE is boasting the number of accounts created. Blizzard does the same thing when they say they have 100 million subs when less then 10 million are actually playing.

Oh I never said it did have anywhere close. The active player count has always been low.

What I said was that if yoshi / se. Gathered feedback from the 10 million people that have played this game and asked why they stopped and what they didn't like about it ya da ya da. They might find 5 million (random arbitrary number) of those players stopped playing because of the treadmill. Which would tell the devs a lot more than any feedback from the relatively small active playerbase..

This is why businesses are shifting focus of there feedback to former customers more than current ones. Because it's much more valuable information.

[OurMom]

I agree with a lot of points here but I feel like SE makes the changes they do because it's what the vocal minority asks for, people that complain on the forums and reddit come off as if they hate the core designs of mmorpgs. They don't like grind, they don't like rng, they don't like progression, they dont want anything but a virtual chatroom with dress-up barbie options.

So that's pretty much what we have. SE needs to have in game polling options imo to get a better view of what people want and to stop perma banning people on the OF so people will stop being scared to post here.

[odintius]

I finally own a house know after everyone quit or hasn't log on for almost half the bloodstorm expansion. The rl freind told me the rewards structure treadmill is what killed it for them to move on but at least I own a house. >.>

[ko_]

I hate part of this complaint that xiv does the same thing over and over. That's every game on the world. No game changes its core gameplay with every add-on. Cod doesn't turn into sonic. Sonic doesn't turn into fallout. Fallout doesn't change into Alex kid and that doesn't change into streets of rage. Games have always done this even wow. And when we DO get different things that break up the mode people don't play them. So with that said what are they posed to do cause gamers in general don't know what they want.

[Iris_BP]

And when we DO get different things thay break up the mode people don't play them.

Maybe because they add things that nobody wanted? Diadem, Vermillion, Rival Wings (had to actually google it because it is THAT obscure), Eureka - all of those are bad design choices that noone wants to do or doesn't do. On top of that there is DD not inherently a bad design but now used solely to level other characters because its most efficient and Ultimate - a thing that actually worked out pretty well because that's what people wanted. Did I forget anything else that is very engaging and impactful in the game besides the core repeated stuff production of which is being reduced btw.

[Claviusnex]

Oh I never said it did have anywhere close. The active player count has always been low.

What I said was that if yoshi / se. Gathered feedback from the 10 million people that have played this game and asked why they stopped and what they didn't like about it ya da ya da. They might find 5 million (random arbitrary number) of those players stopped playing because of the treadmill. Which would tell the devs a lot more than any feedback from the relatively small active playerbase..

This is why businesses are shifting focus of there feedback to former customers more than current ones. Because it's much more valuable information.

However SE isn't getting feedback from former customers. Their entire why did you quit survey is one multiple guess question where you can only pick one response out of the 5 or 6 answers they provide. If they cared even a little they would have had their one question be answered in a ranking order so the results could give some insight into why players quit. If they cared a lot they would have more questions to breakdown what areas of the game and the SE company that cause people to quit.

[Fooldar]

Change is always risky. I can recall many games which turned off their player base with changes.

I recall Dark Age of Camelot and its Trials of Atlantis expansion. In the past, you simply hit max level, obtain a set of crafted equipment and you are basically set for pvp. However, with the release of the Trials of Atlantis expansion, players hated the power imbalance brought by relic items, the grind to farm scrolls to activate the relics, the grind to level up the activated relics, the time investment to go through the master levels (while complaining how imbalanced the master level skills were). I also recall the developers re-designing the open world pvp in their New Frontiers content. Alot of people hated the re-designed New Frontiers and wanted the old, familiar pvp fights (Emain roaming/ganking, mile gate fights, etc).

For other games like Star Wars Galaxies, there were also changes that went too far. Whisper Combat Upgrade to Star Wars Galaxies former players and you would likely see rage. However, the developers Sony Online Entertainment defended the change as something necessary to revitalize the game and subscription numbers.

Hence, whenever I see people saying "We need changes to FFXIV", I am of the view we should not change for the sake of change. Just like companies from other industries, I believe Square-Enix should learn from best practices in the MMO industry. If a change has been proven to work, then sure, by all means, let's take a look to see if its success can be replicated in FFXIV. Square-Enix should not turn to radical unproven changes to the main parts of the game which appeases the few but turn off the many. Just because players think a certain change is good doesn't mean anything. Afterall, if they are so good at improving the game, they would already be running a game that rival FFXIV.

[Dualgunner]

I hate part of this complaint that xiv does the same thing over and over. That's ever game on the world. No game changes its core gameplay with every add-on. Cod doesn't turn into sonic. Sonuc doesn't turn into fallout. Fallout doesn't change into Alex kid and that doesn't change into streets of rage. Games have always done this even wow. And when we DO get different things thay break up the mode people don't play them. So with that said what are they posed to do cause gamers in general don't know what they want.

Nobody's asking for FFXIV to become Sonic the Hedgehog. I suppose when most people ask for change they're just asking for something outside of the Tomestone Grind (tm). X.0 is expansion, X.05 is first raid tier, X.1 is first 24 man, X.2 is second raid tier, X.3 is second 24 man, X.4 is final raid tier, X.5 is final 24 man. There are always ~3 months between each major patch, so ~6 months before gear is nearly invalidated, at most.

Day 1 of this tier, my entire Sigmascape BiS went in the bin for a full crafted set.

[Dzian]

I hate part of this complaint that xiv does the same thing over and over. That's ever game on the world. No game changes its core gameplay with every add-on. Cod doesn't turn into sonic. Sonuc doesn't turn into fallout. Fallout doesn't change into Alex kid and that doesn't change into streets of rage. Games have always done this even wow. And when we DO get different things thay break up the mode people don't play them. So with that said what are they posed to do cause gamers in general don't know what they want.

I thinks that's a massive over exageration. No one ever expects fallout to change onto Alex kid or anything crazy. that's just ridiculous

But if you do or have play fallout you'll find they're all different games even when the core gameplay is much the same across the series.

Or take GTA The core gameplay doesn't change that much but 5 is vastly different from 4 which is vastly different from San Andreas which is vastly different to vice city which is again vastly differnet to gta 3. The core game play of the series stays much the same even though all the games look and feel different.

Even FFXI. CoP was a totally different experience than Zilart, which was a totally different experience to ToAU and WoTG. All vastly different Even when the core game was the same.

In 14 though Stormblood is basically a copy paste of Heavensward which is a copy paste of ARR. And thus 5.0 will likely be yet another copy paste.
And thus everything feels exactly the same.

People are making the exact same topics about loot rollers in alphascape that they were in gordias because it is literally just copy paste content.

"We need changes to FFXIV", I am of the view we should not change for the sake of change. Just like companies from other industries, I believe Square-Enix should learn from best practices in the MMO industry. If a change has been proven to work, then sure, by all means, let's take a look to see if its success can be replicated in FFXIV. Square-Enix should not turn to radical unproven changes to the main parts of the game which appeases the few but turn off the many. Just because players think a certain change is good doesn't mean anything. Afterall, if they are so good at improving the game, they would already be running a game that rival FFXIV.

The problem with this is you need to innovvate. if you don't you can never progress. those unproven changes can never be proven if companies will not innovate and give them a try. just sticking to whats proven has killed more games than innovation ever will. look at WOW. and every single MMO that tried to copy it or kill it and basically they all failed. because ithey didnt offer anything new everything they offered WoW already had. so why would players leave..

COD is another in a different genre how many FPS games have tried to mimic COD and fell flat on there face because of it. why play those games when they can just play COD...

Innovation on the other hand leads to things like PUBG and Fortnite battle royale where a relatively new and completely unproven idea takes the whole industry by storm....

[Hamada]

My friend that wrote this thread is a bit upset it seems a few did not really read what was said (since it feels like nothing was read) just the idea of "i want change" then put words in their mouth. It is that or they put an odd spin on what was not being said, and as others replied to these posts, my friend's reply fits on that same theme, so ty Dzian and Dualgunner.

Change is always risky. I can recall many games which turned off their player base with changes.


I recall Dark Age of Camelot and its Trials of Atlantis expansion. In the past, you simply hit max level, obtain a set of crafted equipment and you are basically set for pvp. However, with the release of the Trials of Atlantis expansion, players hated the power imbalance brought by relic items, the grind to farm scrolls to activate the relics, the grind to level up the activated relics, the time investment to go through the master levels (while complaining how imbalanced the master level skills were). I also recall the developers re-designing the open world pvp in their New Frontiers content. Alot of people hated the re-designed New Frontiers and wanted the old, familiar pvp fights (Emain roaming/ganking, mile gate fights, etc).

For other games like Star Wars Galaxies, there were also changes that went too far. Whisper Combat Upgrade to Star Wars Galaxies former players and you would likely see rage. However, the developers Sony Online Entertainment defended the change as something necessary to revitalize the game and subscription numbers.
Hence, whenever I see people saying "We need changes to FFXIV", I am of the view we should not change for the sake of change. Just like companies from other industries, I believe Square-Enix should learn from best practices in the MMO industry. If a change has been proven to work, then sure, by all means, let's take a look to see if its success can be replicated in FFXIV. Square-Enix should not turn to radical unproven changes to the main parts of the game which appeases the few but turn off the many. Just because players think a certain change is good doesn't mean anything. Afterall, if they are so good at improving the game, they would already be running a game that rival FFXIV.

I hate part of this complaint that xiv does the same thing over and over. That's ever game on the world. No game changes its core gameplay with every add-on. Cod doesn't turn into sonic. Sonuc doesn't turn into fallout. Fallout doesn't change into Alex kid and that doesn't change into streets of rage. Games have always done this even wow. And when we DO get different things thay break up the mode people don't play them. So with that said what are they posed to do cause gamers in general don't know what they want.

Deep breath I hope my wording is not to strong but I really got shocked seeing these 2 posts and am greatly confused. My first reaction is an "AVGN" rant of "what where they thinking" but ill try explain why I feel this way.

First off, Ko, no, not every game in the world does that, far from. The only thing I can really comment on is sonic, as I have no interest in those other games. Lets take sonic 1 for the sega. You where given a platformer like mario, but it was NOT a mario clone. you had different power ups, different ways you needed to approach things, so on.

Sonic 2 came with a new character, new obstacles to deal with, new power up (I think? or was it sonic 3 that only had the different shields) regardless sonic 2 to 3 was vastly different, from the power ups and adding the sonic and knucles on top of that, added a lot of stages and a second upgrade to super sonic/ tails / etc.

What you did, how the game was presented, and other things felt like a new game, there was different presentation and (at times) different puzzles to deal with and things to figure out. It was a platformer but there was still areas to explore here and there and secrets to find.

So i was viewing random youtube videos and I came across something interesting. It talked about escalation issues like what exists in dragon ball Z. In terms of writing each new thread of a story needs to be new and step up in severity from the last. Other genres get around this by horizontally. It is like a good MMO vs a bad one. The easiest way to release new content is to release stuff that is the same strength as what you already have, just packaged different and new way(think ffxi, or least ffxi before abyssea) That way it is still interesting because you never seen it. A bad MMO on the other hand (FFXIV) messes that all up by raising numbers (ilevel,dbz power level, etc) Because they know people will buy it to keep up.

I am not asking for change for the sake of change. I am asking for change because I do not want to be playing HW reskinned (what stormblood is) 3.3 is LITERALLY 4.3, this is not an over exaggeration. Even with crafting, did you take a look how ironwroks crafting set was made? what you do to make the 340 set is the EXACT same thing. there is an item you get from tribes that goes in each set, both use gold ingots (ARR material, this is another thing getting old, once 5.0 comes out, im sure inventory issues will be worse because stuff will be taking materials from the new area + SB+HW+ARR just like SB did with taking HW and ARR stuff and part of the reason inventory space is so strained for crafting)

so when you have 4.3 being a complete copy of 3.3, or 4.4 being a complete copy of 3.4, there is very glaring issues to make one question is the game being properly funded with the money we pay.

All they are doing is reskinning what they done for years, it gets insanly boaring after a while. EVEN YOSHI-P is aware of this, as the quote I used in the first post here was used a few times over to explain the reference better. Despite saying he needs to do something different or people will get tired of it, we got HW resskinned only to be called SB. I know of NO GAME that did this, ever.

All you are doing at this point is taking the DBZ apporch, goku does not die, fights something stronger then the strongest being in the multiverse because he needs to get those 10ilevels for the next patch.