Why do the bosses/raids in this game feel so lifeless?

[greytonberry]

For ffxiv raids i think a major issue is that the only boss anyone cares about is the last one and we only get one last boss per expansion. all of the omega bosses except for omega was just fanservice with no presence in the story or build up or any thing. Alexander was the same where The only bosses that appeared in the storyline before you fought them was the goblin tank guy in A7 and alexander in A12. Coil had Nael, Phoenix and bahamut. So the overwhelming majority of raid encounters have no build up, no story, and can be boiled down to "fight for the sake of fight". Omega felt especially bad because the enemies you're fighting are literally only there to test your might, they aren't bad character they aren't even characters. They're nothing as far as the game and world are concered.

For a game that prides themselves on the story it literally doesn't give a shit about the raid stories. They aren't voice acted, they don't even have any characters, they are off shoots of the story and have no impact on the world itself. What happens in 5.0 if we don't beat omega? Nothing, there's no weight to anything raid wise and this has always been the case, but at least coil was uncovering something incredibly relevant to the world and I'm sure im not the only one who got interested in the game from that sick ARR cinematic.

[Edax]

They're not 'guarding' anything they just happen to be there. They're just monsters that made t hose places their lair. The plants are probably predatory in totorak, preying on the mice or something. Flans aren't allied with tonberries there's just a flan creature lurking there. As for the voidsent in the Darkhold, that's just how dungeons are structured in any MMO I've ever played. It wouldn't be much of a dungeon if the first thing you fought sounded an alarm and then the whole dungeon bumrushed you.

So then why haven't the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak attacked the 2 Coeurl O'Nines already? Why aren't the Tonberry attacking the Goobbue and Flan that have occupied their castle? Why aren't the wildlife attacking the heretics in Snowcloak?
This is what I mean about low player engagement, your attacking random things, purely because they randomly happen to be there, just like the Garbage Boss from FFXIII that attacks you when your in a junkyard. It really isn't terribly hard to write a dungeon when they just fill it with random things blocking your path. Since I don't want to play the Warrior of Light as a psychopathic mass murderer, I'd like to know why I'm killing all these random creatures. It's the Evil Empire's logic to kill them "Just because they're in the way".

[Alleo]

For me, I was completely disconnected from this raid tier 'cause this is the only FF game I've ever cared about.

It was the same for me too, I have played one other FF game but I still would have found it strange to see its bosses in our world with barely any explanation at all. I did enjoy the ending of the omega raid because it was finally focusing more on Omega, Midgardsormr and their conflict but sadly that does not really make up for the imo medicore story before that.

I really hope that the next raids (be it 24 man or 8 man) are more original. That does not mean that it has to be without any fanservice but maybe less obvious and more hidden. Maybe more of those hints which you might miss but others can point them out and you are like "wow true, thats awesome" instead of hitting you right in the face with it. That might be great for those that want that fanservice in the game but for others it might make the raid less interesting.

(But I am also of the mind that they should generally tone down the meta jokes and other direct "funny" ones like they for example did in the four lords. Because its at a point where I have a hard time taking some things seriously at all.)

[Mirch]

I wish raid bosses would chat with me. I wish we could take a cup of tea together while waiting that friggen AST to get his friggen cards. I wish raid boss-kun would react to my emotes. I wish I could give raid boss-kun some cookies so he smiles. I wish our party could {/gpose} the power ranger emotes with raid boss-kun. I wish raid boss-kun notice me.

[Sneakaboo]

Basic voice acting for raid bosses can make an encounter/character memorable.
Same as some basic story writing, it just adds something extra.
I'm not sure how it is in Stormblood , since I'm still stuck in Heavensward though up to now I haven't seen much voice acting.

WOW is a good example how it helps, the story isn't very good most of the time (if not down right stupid).
It's usually more of an excuse why you are going to smack an important lore character around.
However the voice acting , the delivery of the lines and the gags make it breathe.

An encounter can still be very memorable because of it, even though it might just been average.



When I started this game and ended up fighting Garuda the first thing I missed was just basic voice acting.
It's a shame since if ARR does one thing exceptional well it is the music, it would make it in my eyes perfect if it came together.

[Ekimmak]

I fear random dungeon/raid bosses are just a problem of MMOs altogether, not just this one. When I played SWTOR, the number of dungeon bosses with buildup could be counted on one hand. And by buildup, I mean more than just one cutscene introducing them (which barely any bosses got anyway).

I do hope that whatever raid superboss they have next time, it gets them away from the "insert fanservice here" that Omega was. The gear was nice, but the plot was... non-existant.

[Bright-Flower]

So then why haven't the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak attacked the 2 Coeurl O'Nines already? Why aren't the Tonberry attacking the Goobbue and Flan that have occupied their castle? Why aren't the wildlife attacking the heretics in Snowcloak?
This is what I mean about low player engagement, your attacking random things, purely because they randomly happen to be there, just like the Garbage Boss from FFXIII that attacks you when your in a junkyard. It really isn't terribly hard to write a dungeon when they just fill it with random things blocking your path. Since I don't want to play the Warrior of Light as a psychopathic mass murderer, I'd like to know why I'm killing all these random creatures. It's the Evil Empire's logic to kill them "Just because they're in the way".

They're violent and they're in your way and will attack you on sight, because they're monsters or aggressive wildlife. It's not like you're storming into an orphanage and killing everyone for giggles. And when we are fighting sentient beings there's a story reason for why we're doing it. Monsters are, at BEST depending on the type of monster, violent wildlife that will kill you over food or territory just for being where you are so you don't have much choice.

[Bright-Flower]

I fear random dungeon/raid bosses are just a problem of MMOs altogether, not just this one. When I played SWTOR, the number of dungeon bosses with buildup could be counted on one hand. And by buildup, I mean more than just one cutscene introducing them (which barely any bosses got anyway).

I do hope that whatever raid superboss they have next time, it gets them away from the "insert fanservice here" that Omega was. The gear was nice, but the plot was... non-existant.

Yeah. In WoW, SOME bosses have buildup, but certainly not all of them. They generally do a better job than FF XIV of giving more build up, but not always, and certainly not for every boss.

[SilverObi]

So then why haven't the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak attacked the 2 Coeurl O'Nines already? Why aren't the Tonberry attacking the Goobbue and Flan that have occupied their castle? Why aren't the wildlife attacking the heretics in Snowcloak?
This is what I mean about low player engagement, your attacking random things, purely because they randomly happen to be there, just like the Garbage Boss from FFXIII that attacks you when your in a junkyard. It really isn't terribly hard to write a dungeon when they just fill it with random things blocking your path. Since I don't want to play the Warrior of Light as a psychopathic mass murderer, I'd like to know why I'm killing all these random creatures.

Honestly it's just an RPG/video game standard. Not every RPG can be an Undertale where each enemy has an individual outlook on life and a backstory to make you empathize with them. Sometimes a monster is just a monster and it'll kill us if we don't kill it. And as for why there aren't conflicts between enemies where it should make sense, that's an RPG thing. Remember almost every other FF forever would have random battles where flying cats, walking flowers, goblins and hey why not a mantis fight you all at the same time?

When you're fighting other sapient beings though (insert Garleans, heretics, resistance) it almost always gives you a story reason why you are fighting them. Most times we're not the outright aggressor but are reacting to a situation that needs handling and they would kill us for it.

I'd argue the low engagement mainly comes from the lack of actual stakes in the fights. Oh no we died, now what? Respawn and try again since all you lost was a bit of time. If there's nothing to lose then the fights all feel completely lacking in punch or importance. But that's a gameplay issue more than an immersion issue though it does contribute to it a lot.

[Edax]

They're violent and they're in your way and will attack you on sight, because they're monsters or aggressive wildlife. It's not like you're storming into an orphanage and killing everyone for giggles. And when we are fighting sentient beings there's a story reason for why we're doing it. Monsters are, at BEST depending on the type of monster, violent wildlife that will kill you over food or territory just for being where you are so you don't have much choice.

So how come these violent attack-on-sight aggressive monster aren't attacking each other? There's no immersion here when these super aggressive monsters are just sitting in the middle of a hostile dungeon filled with hostile creatures. I call BS.
Seriously, I have to wonder if Square Enix made the next dungeon with a homeless refugee camped out where the first boss would be, that 99% of the player base would attack that homeless person immediately because they've been conditioned to attacking anything in their way in a dungeon.

Honestly it's just an RPG/video game standard. Not every RPG can be an Undertale where each enemy has an individual outlook on life and a backstory to make you empathize with them. Sometimes a monster is just a monster and it'll kill us if we don't kill it. And as for why there aren't conflicts between enemies where it should make sense, that's an RPG thing. Remember almost every other FF forever would have random battles where flying cats, walking flowers, goblins and hey why not a mantis fight you all at the same time?

When you're fighting other sapient beings though (insert Garleans, heretics, resistance) it almost always gives you a story reason why you are fighting them. Most times we're not the outright aggressor but are reacting to a situation that needs handling and they would kill us for it.

I'd argue the low engagement mainly comes from the lack of actual stakes in the fights. Oh no we died, now what? Respawn and try again since all you lost was a bit of time. If there's nothing to lose then the fights all feel completely lacking in punch or importance. But that's a gameplay issue more than an immersion issue though it does contribute to it a lot.

True, sometimes a monster is just a monster. I'd argue that FFXIV relies on it a bit too much. Like I said, it's really takes no effort to write the story of a dungeon as "random bosses are in your way" and the players can sense when little effort has been put into a dungeon. Sure, you can spice up random monster with death consequences, but I still say that the engagement level remains low, like on the level of Eureka Amenos. However, if you actually develop these bosses in the story, the fight because far more meaningful, even on repeats. The act of taking a life should be a tragedy, not just a cheap adrenaline rush.


"Woe betide the man who stands opposed to the Weapon of Light, for death will be his reward. Death for him and his kin and all that he holds dear." - Myste