About the Emperor [Major Spoilers for 4.4]

[Kallera]

Iirc, Ilsabard was already under the Garleans control before "Solus" gave his speech about the burn.

[LineageRazor]

Whoa whoa whoa... bringing up Na- er, 1940's Germany and comparing it to Garlemald is bound to make... certain posters... rather unhappy. While I only find the comparison slightly distasteful due to what I perceive as similarities, it's been brought up before and some people really don't like the comparison. Just... tread lightly.

I admit I was a bit worried that I was skirting the edges of Godwin's Law, but just how many blatant parallels do the writers have to throw at us before we call a spade a spade? Dear lord, when the Garleans rounded up Domans in Namai to march them off to be laborers (with the implication they were to be worked to death, which is why we stepped in to save them at great risk to our covert operations), I was just shaking my head. Yes, SE, we get it. We can see who the Garleans are supposed to remind us of.

It's among the reasons I bristle when folks try to compare the nuanced, grey morality brilliantly portrayed by the antagonists in FFXII to the ham-fisted Evil Empire in this game. The writers aren't even TRYING to portray the Garleans as having a legitimate point of view - and what flimsy rationalization they had (we're saving the world from Primals!) just got the rug yanked out from under it, with the rationalization that it was Ascians leading them by the nose all along. (Not that that revelation made me at all happy... Can't we have at least one pie without any Ascian fingers in it?)

[Bright-Flower]

I admit I was a bit worried that I was skirting the edges of Godwin's Law, but just how many blatant parallels do the writers have to throw at us before we call a spade a spade? Dear lord, when the Garleans rounded up Domans in Namai to march them off to be laborers (with the implication they were to be worked to death, which is why we stepped in to save them at great risk to our covert operations), I was just shaking my head. Yes, SE, we get it. We can see who the Garleans are supposed to remind us of.

It's among the reasons I bristle when folks try to compare the nuanced, grey morality brilliantly portrayed by the antagonists in FFXII to the ham-fisted Evil Empire in this game. The writers aren't even TRYING to portray the Garleans as having a legitimate point of view - and what flimsy rationalization they had (we're saving the world from Primals!) just got the rug yanked out from under it, with the rationalization that it was Ascians leading them by the nose all along. (Not that that revelation made me at all happy... Can't we have at least one pie without any Ascian fingers in it?)

Yeah. The Empire was POTENTIALLY interesting once upon a time. But even 1.0 had the Meteor Project. We had Gaius but we also had Nael. We had Hydrus but we also had Zenos.

The framework of a compelling antagonist is there. A legitimately good goal of stopping Primals from slowly killing the planet. Being driven out in the past to give them a beef with other lands. But not only was the foundation already deeply damaged by the Meteor Project in 1.0, but even Gaius' approach was undermined by his alliance with the obviously evil Lahabrea who used his plan to almost bring about another calamity.

And then we come to Stormblood. Yoshi apparently didn't intend for people to relate to Gaius as much as they did. So they over corrected. They made Zenos INTENTIONALLY unsympathetic so people wouldn't want to side with him. And now the reveal shows that even the good intentions of order and stopping primals was a lie.

This isn't FF XII, it's FF VI where the empire may have some good people within it but as an organization is evil and bad to the core. There's someone on another board I've had frustrating conversations with because they seem to think that Garlemald is the roman empire bringing order to savages as if they buy into the in lore propaganda, dismissing stories of abuse from ala mhigans as non credible sources, playing up the supposed virtues of the empire and downplaying the faults. It's really hard to have an actual discussion with someone with such deluded headcanon who sees the Empire not as it's presented in lore but how they want it to be.

[ObsidianFire]

The thing is, it's been a while since the FF series has had a "Evil Empire". So it doesn't seem like SE's style to do one anymore. I don't think people were expecting them to go this route.

And even with the Garlean Empire being the "Evil Empire", it still isn't so one-dimentionally evil either. The current emperor is probably the biggest question mark as of now. We know he doesn't like the Ascians and wasn't happy when he found out they were behind the Empire. Now is that because he really doesn't like the direction the Garlean Empire is going or just because he wants to be in-charge of it? I don't know. He's a lot less clear-cut then Gaius who seems to have dropped the idea of conquest altogether to focus on fighting the people who are the real problem.

[Balipu]

The Calamity the voice guy allegedly wants to avert.

There's no guarantee that he's any more trustworthy than the Ascians whispering to the beast tribes "go on, summon your god and have your vengeance before your enemies destroy you".

True. For all we know he could very well be an Ascian

[Bright-Flower]

The thing is, it's been a while since the FF series has had a "Evil Empire". So it doesn't seem like SE's style to do one anymore. I don't think people were expecting them to go this route.

And even with the Garlean Empire being the "Evil Empire", it still isn't so one-dimentionally evil either. The current emperor is probably the biggest question mark as of now. We know he doesn't like the Ascians and wasn't happy when he found out they were behind the Empire. Now is that because he really doesn't like the direction the Garlean Empire is going or just because he wants to be in-charge of it? I don't know. He's a lot less clear-cut then Gaius who seems to have dropped the idea of conquest altogether to focus on fighting the people who are the real problem.

The current emperor is not the one in charge. As Solus says, his place is to carry out directives not issue them.

Now, if Varis manages to throw out Solus and Elidibus and take control he could make the Empire something better than what it is, but right now it definitely is 'evil' and its noble goal a lie to fool the masses. That doesn't mean everyone in the empire is evil, but as an organization it's just a tool to sew chaos behind the scenes.

[Remedi]

Even if Varis or Gaius manage to remove the ascians from the empire, that doesn't mean we become buddy buddy.
While Solus had a vision and design for what the empire had to be, Varis and Gaius have their own vision for it,l which doesn't make them tools, the moment either of them will gain a opening they will exploit it to rid themselves of the yoke.
Ascians aren't omnipotent as they think they are. Lahabrea learned it the hard way.
So far only Elidubus and allegedly Solus were able to lead the game, otherwise they've been pretty much cartoon villains
Frankly the unwillingness of Varis to follow up with Elidubus plan is essentially a cechov's gun, if sooner Varis won't make that indolence work I'll consider it a flaw in the writing.

[Cilia]

There's someone on another board I've had frustrating conversations with because they seem to think that Garlemald is the roman empire bringing order to savages as if they buy into the in lore propaganda, dismissing stories of abuse from ala mhigans as non credible sources, playing up the supposed virtues of the empire and downplaying the faults. It's really hard to have an actual discussion with someone with such deluded headcanon who sees the Empire not as it's presented in lore but how they want it to be.

Going off-topic for a moment here, if you'll forgive the digression...

Welcome to any discussion about Garlemald ever on the Lore Forums! Your experience is not unique, I assure you.

Just remember to call red herrings and that "agree to disagree" often means "I can't refute your argument, but I refuse to concede as well" in context, and maybe, just maybe, you'll get out with your sanity intact.

Erm. Back on point - yes, the Garlean Empire is an evil organization (Lawful Evil, to be exact), and parallels the Gestahlian Empire of VI much more than the Archadian Empire of XII (and this is coming from someone who only brushed the former and got bored halfway through the latter), even if not everyone in the Empire is evil. Zenos was made almost comically evil to bring the point home after so many thought Gaius had the right idea.

[Remedi]

If they wanted to make the Garlemand empire an evil organization completely they wouldn't have brought back Gaius nor made Varis reluctant in 4.4 stinger.
Yes Zenos made the empire look evil and the collusion between Varis and Zenolidubus cemented that, however 4.4 throws everything into discussion because while Solus is shown to be completely evil, you can't say the same for Gaius nor Varis, especially since the former is actively seeking to remove the ascian problem to create a rightful empire probably.
As if the existance of the dissent in the empire wasn't proof enough, you cannot say that the organization is entirely evil, it was created for evil yes, but it became something else and this is why the ascians came back.

[LineageRazor]

If they wanted to make the Garlemand empire an evil organization completely they wouldn't have brought back Gaius nor made Varis reluctant in 4.4 stinger.
Yes Zenos made the empire look evil and the collusion between Varis and Zenolidubus cemented that, however 4.4 throws everything into discussion because while Solus is shown to be completely evil, you can't say the same for Gaius nor Varis, especially since the former is actively seeking to remove the ascian problem to create a rightful empire probably.
As if the existance of the dissent in the empire wasn't proof enough, you cannot say that the organization is entirely evil, it was created for evil yes, but it became something else and this is why the ascians came back.

Of the two examples you name, it's telling to note that GAIUS LEFT. Even in 2.0, he and his legion had gone AWOL to pursue what Gaius felt was the proper way to handle Eorzea. Sure, he was doing it for the sake of Garlemand, but they were actions that the Empire did not want him to take. And NOW, as the Shadowhunter, he is explicitly targeting Ascians - and since Ascians are running the Empire, it follows that he is not only not a good example of a good member of the organization, he's actually in direct conflict with the organization.

And as for Varis - he hasn't left yet, but he is also clearly displeased with the organization. His resistance is passive, for now, but will likely become active in due time.

Basically, anyone decent turns against the Empire to one degree or another as soon as they learn enough about it. When folks of a noble nature appear to be supporting the Empire, they are treated by the narrative as being tragically misguided. If that doesn't paint the Empire as evil, I don't know what does. Garlemand as a nation is not evil. Garleans as a people are not evil. But Garlemand as an Empire most certainly is.

Cilia brought up FFVI, and yes, that's a MUCH better parallel for they style of Empire we have than FFXII. Vayne is not in charge - Gestahl is (well, kind of a Gestahl/Kefka mix given how irreverent and flippant Solus is). Garlemand has its General Leos, loyal individuals who believe in the nobility of their nation, but these folks are essentially little more than propaganda-fodder because the folks in charge are basically monsters - and just as we saw with Maxima, when those General Leos become inconvenient they are disposed of.