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  1. #1
    Player
    Acidblood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    359
    Character
    Sylvaria Molkot
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramesses View Post
    Yes, this!

    For some reason, when I do switch over to play BLM in Duty Finder or raids, I get the comments... "Geeze! A BLM that can do solid damage!"

    It boggles the mind sometimes and as you just said, I'm beginning to think there are some who can't really perform on the job and then run into a few groups who automatically just assume BLM can't deliver.
    The general problem with how BLM is designed is that it's fantastic on a striking dummy, but throw in the chaos and required movement of a real fight* and it's all too easy to tank your DPS through small mistakes and slight mis-timings (which other jobs don't tend to suffer as much from; e.g. SAM can mis-time things all day and still do good DPS).

    And sure, this can be overcome (at least mostly*) though practice and muscle memory, but that doesn't help when you're trying to learn BLM in the first place, especially since the BLM rotation, and thus the timing of everything, drastically changes at key levels... i.e. you can't even really start to learn BLM until it’s level 70. Edit: Or that you basically have to re-learn the timing of your 'movement abilities' for every fight.

    * Adding to BLMs issues, it seems like the fight designers have put a lot more emphasis on movement in SB, with certain fights (especially in the 24-mans) having periods of constant and sustained movement, which BLM just isn't designed for (Triple Cast only covers about 8 seconds), and for a 'pure DPS' jobs it just feels s**t basically having to sit on your hands and chain cast Transpose / Scathe while you wait for the boss to stop p**sing about so you can be useful again. /rant

    As for what to do about it... well (and assuming they are going to continue to push movement in fights) they could start by trimming all the useless chaff (e.g. Freeze, Sleep) and 'punishment' mechanics (current Enochian :facepalm: ), and giving BLM:
    1. Generally shorter cast times
    2. More abilities that allow BLM to maintain up-time (and thus high DPS) while moving... Triple Cast is a good start, but how about:
    - Enochian = can cast while moving for a short time
    - Freeze Time = stops all buffs from counting down / ticking until after your next action (or 30 seconds)
    - Outside the Lines = moves your Lay Lines to you
    - Duplicate Magic (replaces Scathe after taking another action) = repeats your previous action with no cast time, reverts to Scathe, short cooldown before becoming Duplicate Magic again

    TLDR: BLM needs some design changes, as its reliance on minimal movement is no longer compatible with the design of many encounters, and as a 'pure DPS' job this leaves it starkly behind, and simply not fun for inexperienced players.
    (4)
    Last edited by Acidblood; 09-26-2018 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidblood View Post
    TLDR: BLM needs some design changes, as its reliance on minimal movement is no longer compatible with the design of many encounters, and as a 'pure DPS' job this leaves it starkly behind, and simply not fun for inexperienced players.
    So far, every encounter I've managed to have the standard amount of uptime minus transition phases, which have been a bigger issue than the movement phases. It's always been a matter of plopping down and going to town, which is why the numbers on Chadarnook and God Kefka were so dumb. No downtime.

    I find it far more annoying for the boss to have inconvenient jumps that cut AF phases short. As a "Extremely High Sustained DPS" job, we don't dump our potencies in a span of 15-20 seconds, but over the entire course of a fight, so those interrupts are especially jarring.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Acidblood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    359
    Character
    Sylvaria Molkot
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jikillia View Post
    maybe increase astral and umbra duration? I felt blm loss of dmg is mostly due to loss of enochian
    Wouldn't help, as people would just extend their rotations (e.g. 4-5 Fire IVs instead of 3-4) and drop Enochian anyway... A much better change would be to either:

    - Revert Enochian to a separate buff (like how it was in HW) but still have its duration (of about 20 seconds) refreshed with stacks. This would let you drop stacks for even a split second, such as when transitioning 'late' from Astral to Umbral via Blizzard III, without dropping (and thus having to re-apply) Enochian. (And would even let you pre-cast it!)

    - Remove Fire IV and Blizzard IV having a reliance on Enochian (maybe they can require 3 stacks instead?) and completely change what Enochian is (or simply remove it, but BLM is kind of short on abilities as is, so..)


    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    So far, every encounter I've managed to have the standard amount of uptime minus transition phases, which have been a bigger issue than the movement phases. It's always been a matter of plopping down and going to town, which is why the numbers on Chadarnook and God Kefka were so dumb. No downtime.

    I find it far more annoying for the boss to have inconvenient jumps that cut AF phases short. As a "Extremely High Sustained DPS" job, we don't dump our potencies in a span of 15-20 seconds, but over the entire course of a fight, so those interrupts are especially jarring.
    While I don't disagree, especially compared to say SMN, or the melee jobs in general with their disproportionate number of DPS buffs (where 'downtime' = relatively shorter cooldown times), that issue isn't necessarily unique to BLM... MNK for example can be an absolute pain to play without a constant target, and even DRG and SAM work a lot more smoothly given something to consistently hit.

    However it is irregular and extended periods of movement that affect BLM in a way that no other class (except maybe WHM) suffers from, and this is especially pronounced while learning BLM, and thus why there are so few 'mid-tier' BLMs; as those that want to play BLM push though, while everyone else just gives up and plays BRD
    (0)
    Last edited by Acidblood; 09-28-2018 at 02:34 PM.