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  1. #21
    Player
    Ramesses's Avatar
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    Sharlayan
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    Prince Nuada
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    Diabolos
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    Reaper Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    Case in point, my man, Gaius van Baelsar: right hand of Solus zos Galvus, slayer of nine usurpers to the crown, meritocrat, aspiring "good leader", mistake maker.
    This also suggests Solus just happened to throw Gaius under the bus to Lahabrea.
    ...Right? Exactly, this!

    This is one of the reasons why I'm too certain that Gaius knows about Solus being an Ascian and how his patriotic loyalty was repeatedly used to further the Ascian's ambitions.

    Yeah, dinner between those two got interrupted very badly... and Gaius was left with the outstanding cheque. His fury is definitely substantiated.
    (5)

  2. #22
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Anony Moose
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    Excalibur
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    Well, that was <sigh> taxing.

    Alright, let's do this...

    Elidibus

    To capitalize on the Populares' lost momentum (in light of the Doman summoning), Elidibus (strongly) suggests that Emperor Varis zos Galvus order "his son" to destroy Ala Mhigo as a display of the Empire's unshaken might. Varis's silence prompts Elidibus reminds him that he has vowed to support the Empire, and that he would debase himself by spending his days pretending to be Zenos should be proof enough of his intent to honor that promise...so give the order. Silence. Elidibus sweetens the pot, suggesting that this will lead to the fall of the Warrior of Light. Silence. Frustrated, he switches tactics; threatening that delaying the order may jeopardize victory before taking his leave.

    Solus

    A man swaggers out from behind the throne. His third eye marks him a pure-blood Garlean.

    I played my part to perfection. I had earned my rest. And then, thanks to Lahabrea's crowning act of idiocy, our favorite emissary sees fit to summon me back.
    This man successfully completed his tasks. Building the Empire, setting the stage for global chaos and war, getting sick and dying under circumstances that inspire maximum tension. Every single thing that happened was meant to happen until the death of the Emperor (2.00).

    This man then passed things off to Lahabrea, who would make a series of arrogant missteps resulting in the "crowning" act of idiocy that led to his (alleged) extinction. As a result, this man was recalled to active duty. We can surmise, then, that his man answered to Lahabrea. Note that this rules out few possibilities. Every black-mask we've met on the Source answered to Lahabrea, but so did Nabriales and Igeyorhm.

    Elidibus was ever a worrier. A most tiresome trait, would you not agree?
    This man's ideology is in line with the acolytes in black. Either he was recruited into the ranks of the Ascians like black-masked soldiers, or transmigratory and compelled to serve under Lahabrea temporarily.

    What, have you no words for me either? No matter. I've long grown weary of this mummery. Now, my dearest grandson. Let me remind you of your place, in the simplest of terms.
    Just as Varis has nothing to say to his "son", he has nothing to say to his "grandfather". This suits the man just fine. But is this a clue that the man in question did not sire Varis's father, and thus is not the real Solus zos Galvus? Or is this the same entity, but merely tired of the overall series of false narratives? No language gets more specific than, "It's a little late to pretend to be a happy family," which does not preclude that this is his grandfather in another form.

    You do not make judgments─you administer them. Swiftly and to the letter. Naught else is your concern.
    Elidibus may be an insufferable bore, but he is no fool. His choices as emissary seldom err.
    More confirmation the man is an acolyte. He and Elidibus do not like one another, but the acolytes trust the Elidibus is promoting their interests, and thus far he has done so flawlessly. Ergo, Solus believes that Varis should blindly follow every order that he's been given. One can surmise then that everything this man did is exactly what Elidibus told him to do ... and if whatever they're working together on is only one shared goal, and the Acolytes and Emissary have different goals thereafter, "blindly follow orders" might not work out so well. Moreover, Solus seems to believe that Varis also shares whatever this first goal is. (More on that later.)

    Note that Solus is also pointing out that Varis should just go with this because nothing practical has changed. Varis followed Solus's orders when Solus was Emperor. He was an Ascian then. He was listening to Elidibus then. Just keep following orders, what's the problem?

    If aught threatens the balance 'twixt Light and Dark, it falls to you to remove it. Be it by your own hands or by your armies, you have ample means at your disposal.
    That is why this empire exists─why I built it.
    Odd words from an acolyte. Neither Nabriales nor Lahabrea spoke thus when rambling about their final goals.
    Is it something that pertains to the immediate, shared goal Elidibus is working with them to achieve?

    At any rate, this man built the Garlean Empire, and to not use its resources to manifest whatever desire the Emissary has is asinine.
    Elidibus knows what to do, you have the resources to do it, get it done. In dealing with the Emissary one need only obey.

    Oh dear. Have I touched a nerve? You always were an easy one to read. I pity you, I do. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
    And I know how much happier you would be not knowing the things you know.
    Varis is not as stoic as he wants to think he is. He may have been able to keep his cool in the Sea of Clouds, but since Elidibus started whispering in his ear after he took over the Empire? Since Elidibus took his own son's corpse as a meat suit? Not so much. This line varies a bit by language. In German it's closer to, "Oh, come now, isn't it uplifting to be one of the initiated insiders? We can infer from past sentiments from Varis on Solus (especially in EEI) that this information is rather new to him.

    The founding father was an Ascian! And he created the Empire solely for the purpose of sowing the seeds of chaos!
    Let's do some math. (Ugh.)

    Garlemald the Empire was founded in 1522, when founding father Solus zos Galvus was 33. However the man who founded the Empire ended up being an Ascian, he was already so at this time and has been since. This is our upper threshold. Mathematically, Varis's father must have already been born by this time. (I think?). So the real question is, what is the lower threshold for when the first son of House Galvus (Solus) became (or was taken over by) an Ascian?

    Zenos is the first (and only known) son of Varis, estimated age 25 (give or take one year). This pushes his birth to around 1552ish. At this time, Varis would have been around 21 and Solus would have been around 63. This means that at the time of Varis's birth, Solus was about 42. Given that we haven't seen a parent under the age of 18 in this game (that I recall), that's only about(18 x 2 = 36; 42 -36 =) 6 years of wiggle room for Solus to have had his firstborn son, father of Varis: 1507 (Varis's father 24 at DOB) to 1513 (Varis's father 18 at DOB).
    Working up to Age 33:
    Solus joins the army in 1505 (Age 16)
    Varis's father (and Titus) probably born in this widow here.
    Solus is awesome at this job; appointed Legatus in 1513, pushes the magitek revolution (Age 24)
    Garlemald starts aggressive expansion in 1515 (Age 26) Note: Solus still answers to someone at this time.
    Solus becomes dictator in 1517 (Age 28)
    When did the Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.
    How did he Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.

    I'm not confident conclusions can be reached, are you? I can see 5 or 6 variables that can add up to a dozen different ways to spin this, potentially, yes?
    Including that this dude is just a liar; for all I know, this whole story is b.s. and Elidibus just had Emet-Selch come over to mess with Varis.

    Don't take it personally. I merely do my duty. To bring about a Calamity requires no small amount of power. And there is no surer way to obtain such power than by collecting powerful pawns. To that end, I have labored long and hard, and I must say I am quite pleased with my handiwork─paltry though it seems in comparison to Allag.
    The forging of the Empire was solely to mobilize the resources to cause a Calamity, and this man pulled it off. Sure, not as great as Allag. But pretty great. (Is he by extension implying that Allag, too, was nothing more than a vehicle for chaos driven always by Ascian machination? A leap. Not an unbelievable leap. But a leap nonetheless.)

    You fiends are overfond of your own voices. Mark me, Ascian. Man is the master of his own destiny!
    "Fiends." / "Mark me, Ascian."

    Varis is not on board with the acolytes, and contemptuous with acolyte and Emissary alike acting as if mankind is impotent to write his own story. Is Varis suggesting that he knows that this Ascian is not of this world? Or is he lumping his grandfather in with them for becoming one? Either way, it seems like this may be just the beginning of his insubordination. In 4.0, the revelations might have been overwhelming and they might think they've got him convinced, but this is a declaration of the future. Man will not accept the reins of their history in any other hand. How much more will Varis bend before he breaks, though? Eh...

    Such a waste of time and energy. Both yours and mine. Lest you forget, you are Emperor now. If you wish to spout drivel about man's destiny, save it for the masses. It will serve to give them a sense of purpose...and you pliant pieces for the game. Oh, do stop sulking, boy. You of all people should understand.
    In the middle of a speech about how the Empire is merely a utilitarian way to fulfill orders, Varis a bullet, a body, and time. The corpse on the floor, the pure-blood Garlean, has the same visage as the Ascian. Now we must argue the chicken and the egg. Does the Ascian look like the man he was possessing because it was the last body we saw him in? Or did the Ascian shape that body when transmigrating into it? These two questions have more than two possible causes.

    At any rate, Solus isn't interested in man's destiny, but if Varis would just step outside and give the same speech he might at least do something productive by convincing a few more people to do their bidding; people are so pliable when they feel a part of something noble and bigger than themselves.

    Ours is a struggle to restore both mankind and the world to their rightful state. Viewed thus, our goals are one and the same.
    So Elidibus, Solus, and allegedly Varis all believe in restoring the world and mankind to its rightful state? Varis seemed as though he wasn't sure whether to support this in 4.0. Moreover, this is interesting coming from an acolyte. We know the Acolytes and Elidibus agree on the need to resurrect Zodiark. But it seems they agree on a bit more than that... Varis seems to be struggling to accept that re-merging Zodiark and Hydaelyn will "save the world".
    (25)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 09-24-2018 at 02:20 PM.
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  3. #23
    Player
    ObsidianFire's Avatar
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    Kharagal Mierqid
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    Cerberus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    Case in point, my man, Gaius van Baelsar: right hand of Solus zos Galvus, slayer of nine usurpers to the crown, meritocrat, aspiring "good leader", mistake maker.
    This also suggests Solus just happened to throw Gaius under the bus to Lahabrea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solus zos Galvus
    Don't take it personally. I merely do my duty. To bring about a Calamity requires no small amount of power. And there is no surer way to obtain such power than by collecting powerful pawns. To that end, I have labored long and hard, and I must say I am quite pleased with my handiwork─paltry though it seems in comparison to Allag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solus zos Galvus
    Such a waste of time and energy. Both yours and mine. Lest you forget, you are Emperor now. If you wish to spout drivel about man's destiny, save it for the masses. It will serve to give them a sense of purpose...and you pliant pieces for the game. Oh, do stop sulking, boy. You of all people should understand.
    I get the feeling Gaius was one of Solus' powerful pawns. I wonder of Solus passing him off to Lahabrea was Solus trying to sacrifice Giaus before he caught on to too much. Giving people a sense of purpose is great until they get too smart about the situation. Then they turn into a liability.

    It's interesting that Lahabrea's crowning act of idiocy isn't mentioned by name. Because that could be a lot of things other then just him dying. I'll find it very ironic if instead of it being Lahabrea dying it was letting certain people find out about what the Ascians true goals were. And now Elidibus has called Solus back to ferret out one of his old assets that's gone rouge and is taking out other Ascians...

    On a side note, I'll be really disappointed if Solus does not make some allusion to Varis about making sure pawns get sacrificed before they reach the end of the board. They get promoted when that happens and sometimes that promotion isn't just into more powerful pieces. Sometimes that promotion is into players in their own right...
    (9)

  4. #24
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObsidianFire View Post
    On a side note, I'll be really disappointed if Solus does not make some allusion to Varis about making sure pawns get sacrificed before they reach the end of the board. They get promoted when that happens and sometimes that promotion isn't just into more powerful pieces. Sometimes that promotion is into players in their own right...
    Clever! Though I could also see it being presented the other way around. Varis - known for enjoying strategy games - outsmarts Solus in the end, and turns his smug "game pieces" analogy back on itself.
    (3)

  5. #25
    Player
    Balipu's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    Tea Mysidia
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    Phoenix
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    Rogue Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    This is where the fun begins!

    To be fair this whole patch was super fun. Timetraveling voices? Calamities? Everything about Solus? Yes, please.

    The implication is that "Solus" the Ascian possessed Solus the man at some point or another, then played out the part of a mortal man while setting up Garlemald to be an engine of conflict.

    The implication, yes. But we don't know the truth. Solus he founded the Empire to cause chaos, so he was an Ascian at least when the Empire was founded.


    Do we know he wasn't taken over by an Ascian? No.


    And, as "Solus" was playing the part of a mortal man, he would have to act as mortal men do - have children, grow old, and such.

    Well he didn't say Solus was controlled by an Ascian. He said Solus was an Ascian. How literal that is, i can only guess. Since his body aged and not rotted we can guess that he wasn't a corpse suit like Zenos.



    If "Solus'" mortal body was just a normal Garlean man, this wouldn't be true. If he were somehow able to have children without a mortal body, then... perhaps the royal line would be capable of some degree of aetherial manipulation, but who knows?

    Powerful pawns are important to him. I'm sure if it were possible to pass on his powers, he would have done it

    I believed this as well, but Gaius the Shadowhunter and Maxima both have brown hair. And not to nitpick... but since this "Solus" seems to be an aetherial construct in the vein of Nabriales, there's no reason he couldn't have whatever hair color he wants. It also looks purple-ish to me, not black, and there's only a white stripe, not half-and-half.


    True, his hair is more like Jason Todd's. As for Shadowhunter and Maxima....well there might be degrees of blood purity. Or it is based on how much Allagan blood you have. Eula's hair was white.



    "Solus" never died, he just "retired" from his then-current role - probably to go work on other projects until Elidibus called him back. Since it's to get things back on track after Lahabrea's "crowning act of idiocy," and Elidibus didn't seem particularly irritated with him for his failure during 2.0, it was probably after 3.0 and Lahabrea getting himself (and Igeyorhm) killed.

    Well he did say rest. What that was is anyone's guess. Doesn't sound like a project.



    Maybe. He's definitely going to be a villain in 5.0, but whether he's the main one remains unknown.
    I don't think anybody could pose a bigger threat at the moment. Sure Elidibus is higher up on the Ascian foodchain, but we won't deal with him this soon. Take his suit maybe, but nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    I'm still working up the analysis of the speech but since you're all working in the same vein here for the moment:

    Don't forget what Nabriales said: Specifically of the fourteen overlords that exist in 2.50, only Lahabrea is from the Source.
    Exist. Solus was resting at that point. Whatever that might mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    Well, that was <sigh> taxing.

    Alright, let's do this...

    I love it when you do stuff like this.



    This man's ideology is in line with the acolytes in black. Either he was recruited into the ranks of the Ascians like black-masked soldiers, or transmigratory and compelled to serve under Lahabrea temporarily.

    He is definitely more than a soldier. Even if being Solus is a job Elidibus gave him, he wouldn't give a job this big to a regular shmuck. His choices as emissary seldom err.



    Varis is not as stoic as he wants to think he is. He may have been able to keep his cool in the Sea of Clouds, but since Elidibus started whispering in his ear after he took over the Empire? Since Elidibus took his own son's corpse as a meat suit? Not so much. This line varies a bit by language. In German it's closer to, "Oh, come now, isn't it uplifting to be one of the initiated insiders? We can infer from past sentiments from Varis on Solus (especially in EEI) that this information is rather new to him.

    Define, rather new. How long ago was 3.0? A few months? A year? More? Some youtube commenters theorize that he spat on Solus' coffin cause he knew about his true identity.

    Let's do some math. (Ugh.)

    Garlemald the Empire was founded in 1522, when founding father Solus zos Galvus was 33. However the man who founded the Empire ended up being an Ascian, he was already so at this time and has been since. This is our upper threshold. Mathematically, Varis's father must have already been born by this time. (I think?). So the real question is, what is the lower threshold for when the first son of House Galvus (Solus) became (or was taken over by) an Ascian?

    Zenos is the first (and only known) son of Varis, estimated age 25 (give or take one year). This pushes his birth to around 1552ish. At this time, Varis would have been around 21 and Solus would have been around 63. This means that at the time of Varis's birth, Solus was about 42. Given that we haven't seen a parent under the age of 18 in this game (that I recall), that's only about(18 x 2 = 36; 42 -36 =) 6 years of wiggle room for Solus to have had his firstborn son, father of Varis: 1507 (Varis's father 24 at DOB) to 1513 (Varis's father 18 at DOB).
    Working up to Age 33:
    Solus joins the army in 1505 (Age 16)
    Varis's father (and Titus) probably born in this widow here.
    Solus is awesome at this job; appointed Legatus in 1513, pushes the magitek revolution (Age 24)
    Garlemald starts aggressive expansion in 1515 (Age 26) Note: Solus still answers to someone at this time.
    Solus becomes dictator in 1517 (Age 28)
    When did the Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.
    How did he Ascian thing happen? I'd want more information.

    I'm not confident conclusions can be reached, are you? I can see 5 or 6 variables that can add up to a dozen different ways to spin this, potentially, yes?
    Including that this dude is just a liar; for all I know, this whole story is b.s. and Elidibus just had Emet-Selch come over to mess with Varis.

    At this point the variation that requires the least ammount of assumptions is that Solus was a man. Lived his life, had sex, got posessed by an Ascian as a father, founded the empire and left for a vacation after the Solus body died.
    This raises another question: Why did Solus occupy a body after he returned to duty? He can talk to Varis just fine in his incorporeal version. So why take a body at all?
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
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    Reynhart Kristensen
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    Ragnarok
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    The "Garlemald is also sort of good!" interpretation works mostly because some Garleans were tricked so hard that they wanted to make a better, more stable, more reliable, more benevolent Empire
    It's way easier to trick people into believing in you if your speech holds some truth to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    I've been suspicious that all the blonde hair and blue eyes was just to evoke (from the audience) negative associations of "Ah, they're the racial purity folks."
    Pretty funny considering the leader of the most well know "blonde hair, blue eyes superiority" mentality was black of hair.
    (2)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 09-24-2018 at 10:07 PM.

  7. #27
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Tristain Archambeau
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    Except the part where guy who founded the Garlean Empire and sent them on a crusade against the primals was himself one of the immortal wraiths giving humanity the knowledge of how to summon primals and the motivation to put that knowledge to use, founding said Empire specifically so trick people into going to war at the cost of catastrophic global chaos. I think that part may have skipped through the cracks, lol.
    But the Ascians could have accomplished that with or without the Empire, by getting Midgardsormr out of the way - Agrius slaughtering him was always a wild bet, and they could've done it themselves, through the use of Allagan tech. Once the seal was broken, they would have but to spur the beast tribes into attacking the city states, and you'd get much the same end result. Nevermind assisting Thordan in breaching Azys Lla, where 3 dormant, very powerful eikons remained. The above would suggest the Ascians were intent on using summoning as a weapon, one way or another. I believe had it not been the Garlean Empire (assuming "Solus" is being truthful), they would have repeated much the same trick with Ishgard, instead. So Theodric is quite correct on the threat primals pose, exactly because they're the Ascians' preferred weapon/catalyst as things stand. The Ascians would have forced primals into being the threat they are, one way or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balipu View Post
    How recently? Nothing suggests he wasn't there for a long time. Solus died in 2.2 I think. And Lahabrea's idiocy was in 3.0 As far as we know Solus was there behind the curtains from 3.1 Onwards.
    We don't, really. He just said that at this point, he had been called back into service by Elidibus. Quite when he resumed his earlier duties is, for the time being, unclear. I'd consider 3.1 to be recent, either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    You're 100% sure that Solus zos Galvus the man and "Solus zos Galvus" the Ascian are separate entities? Solus zos Galvus was born a man, died a man, and was replaced by an Ascian of unknown identity who is continuing to go by his old, dead puppet's name, and is continuing to self-present with his old, dead puppet's body, for reasons unknown? Are we able to conclusively rule out all other possibilities at this time?

    Everyone seems to understand exactly that the implication is but none of the lessons given when educating others about it seem to line up.

    It's just proliferating and exacerbating that initial confusion, imo.

    I'm going to take a moment to go back and re-read and see just how many walls we can feel out.
    Which is the point I've been making repeatedly about the Ascians. We don't know enough about them to draw any conclusions as to how definitive their mastery over their host is. The examples we're familiar with are, in some respects, defective or inadequate to draw broader conclusions as to the nature of the Overlords and how they possess bodies. What I would say, however, is that I would not take "Solus's" speech to lead to the conclusion that he was an Ascian all along - from birth - because he gives no such implication. It might be the case, sure, but to me his words appear to suggest nothing more than he took the Republic to an Empire. This most likely occurred after Solus had gained some prominence and when the Ascian took over, if he really did.

    So yeah, like you say, we need more information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keever View Post
    When Nabriales is ejected from his host body following the fight in the Chrysalis, his fleshless form appears above it, looking identical to the host body, sideburns and all. What happens with Solus is in line with that.

    My hypothesis for now, if only because it seems to explain all these instances most neatly, is that we usually perceive Ascians' fleshless forms as looking identical to the last host they possessed. We know that Ascians' appearances are affected by expectations in some way thanks to Elidibus' spiel in patch 2.1 explaining why Tataru was unable to see him: "Knowledge dictates expectation, and expectation colors perception." (English localisation lead John Crow [A.K.A. Corvinoobus] explains in an interview here that this line was also written in this way to hand-wave away the differences between current Ascian depictions and the shadowless Ascians in 1.0.)
    That could make sense - equally, Solus re-formed himself in front of Varis and his guards and then strode off. So, absent total ejection from the host's body (e.g. as effected in the cases of Nabriales and Lahabrea-as-Thancred), and domination over its soul, it remains open, as far as I am concerned, that the Ascian can simply re-constitute the same form. That, or they can summon very convincing illusions. Both make sense given their array of powers.
    (2)
    Last edited by Lauront; 09-25-2018 at 02:59 AM.
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  8. #28
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Anony Moose
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauront View Post
    But the Ascians could have accomplished that with or without the Empire, by getting Midgardsormr out of the way - Agrius slaughtering him was always a wild bet, and they could've done it themselves, through the use of Allagan tech. Once the seal was broken, they would have but to spur the beast tribes into attacking the city states, and you'd get much the same end result.
    Working Backwards: What Allagan tech?

    In 1562, Eorzeans were ecstatic if they found a stone or coin that sustained proof the Allagans weren't a myth. Ten years after the fall of Midgardsormr, both Cid and Gaius called the first tomestone they saw useless rubble (until Darnus got the readers working). Midas nan Garlond barely got the "lunar transmitter" running (also thanks to Darnus).

    Who, then, do you propose had the power to take down Midgardsormr in 1562 if not the Empire (allegedly created solely to mobilize resources for such grand accomplishments)? (And, yes, I agree that Ascian Solus "merely" forged imperial will from the desperation of what was, 50 years ago, a backwater republic pushed to the fringes of Ilsabard.)

    (For that matter, taking ARR into consideration, who but the Garlean Empire had the resources to pull Dalamud from the sky?)

    The former part of your post, however, is precisely (one layer of) what the Ascians did.

    They came to the beast tribes masquerading as their divine messengers, "The Paragons", and gave apocalyptic warnings that the faithless, unclean city-states were going to bring about a disaster by inviting "Darkness". The "Reaper" Ascian (presumably Lahabrea out of disguise) would then unexpectedly appear and cause casualties, thereby affirming the tale. "The Paragons" also taught the beast tribes how to defend themselves from this threat - to reach out for deliverance from their gods (i.e. they were lied to).

    These divine visits coincided with the Garleans movement on Mor Dhona. Midgardsormr was taken out of play exactly as the beast tribes received the knowledge and resources they needed to summon, and the aetherial catastrophe of the breaking of the seal tipped the scales so much closer to Calamity that Hydaelyn sounded the Echo. After this, chaos reigned for much of 1562 in Eorzea.

    But why stop with a little chaos when you can cause a lot? Note that if Ascian Solus is telling the truth and hints from 4.4 are accurate, the citizens of the Empire never witnessed proof of eikons until this event. This was proof: the Empire must march on Eorzea. ("The Paragons" also warned that the Garleans would not stop at Gyr Abania and suggested turning their gods on the Empire should they invade their lands.)

    The whole point total chaos. Eorzea vs. Beast Tribes vs. Empire.

    Notice also that for all the slaughter Eorzea vs. Beast Tribes would have resulted in, you couldn't necessarily bank on a Calamity from it without the Empire inspiring an escalation in the degree of weapons utilized.

    Yes, the Ascians always would have used someone, but how is that a defense for being the one who gets suckered into pulling the trigger? "That guy was gonna hire a hitman anyway, it might as well have been me." works about as well as "I was just following orders."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauront View Post
    Nevermind assisting Thordan in breaching Azys Lla, where 3 dormant, very powerful eikons remained.
    Lahabrea's penultimate act of idiocy. The idea was to take the Warring Triad off the table by having these three uncontrollable, nigh-infinitely powerful primals consumed by one (supposedly) easily-manipulated archbishop. He botched that, of course, so Elidibus had to pull a kid he kidnapped out of cold storage and have him gull the Warrior of Light into cleaning up the mess for him while he used the distraction of the Dragonsong War's conclusion (now that Thordan wasn't going to kill all the dragons and temper the continent) to set up the next conflicts.

    Notice the parties involved in that plan: The Warriors of Darkness vs. the Beast Tribes vs. the Eorzeean Alliance vs. the Garlean Empire.

    The first time, maybe you could say it was a fluke.
    The second time, maybe you could say it was a coincidence.
    But the third time? That's a pattern.
    (19)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 09-25-2018 at 04:05 AM.
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  9. #29
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
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    3,692
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Just to clear something up - the Agrius did not slaughter Midgardsormr. It wasn't even a mutual kill.

    Midgardsormr actually defeated the Agrius. He only died because of his own arrogance - he just had to gloat about his victory by roaring and such while still coiled around it when the ceruleum tanks exploded, taking him with them. He'd already bested the airship beforehand.
    (14)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  10. #30
    Player
    Khalithar's Avatar
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    May 2015
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    Khalith Mateo
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    Mateus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Balipu View Post
    Ascians are incorporeal and can only occupy bodies
    Solus was not taken over by an Ascian. He was an Ascian. Yet he could have sex. I mean he has children. And his body aged over the course of his life.
    Well, we know via Thancred that Ascians can possess corporeal still living bodies. Thancred's body wasn't a corpse when it was taken over and he used the body as his own. Now presumably he could have used Thancred's still living body to have sex if he wanted to and presumably it would function like any other living male body and be capable of impregnating a female. As far as the aging goes that's a bit more tricky. When an Ascian takes a living host and assuming the host's biology remains the same, we can only presume that the body would age as well. But we've also seen that the Ascians have taken corpses that looked "fresh" I guess for lack of a better word.

    My abridged theory:
    Ascian takes Solus' body, uses it to wage war against primals knowing full well it will only increase primal summoning, and plays the part of Emperor by siring an heir, starting a family, allowing the body he inhabited to grow old, and then eventually "die." Then once every thought he was dead, he just reverted it back to it's young form because... it looks better? Thus allowing him to continue working to sow chaos behind the throne.
    (5)

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