Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[ErysNight]

Sorry to hear that. This is basically the crux of the argument - that real life doesn't always allow for you to be the best informed, most active player. And sometimes just not active or informed enough to not miss one particular feature.

That's just a cop out. When you've played the game for that many YEARS, you should be informed. You were there when the housing system went through every change, but in this thread you're just throwing your hands up and saying SE should have spoon fed you information and held your hand. It's insane to me.

I agree that the demo process should have more in-game warnings. I even really like someone of the improvements this thread has generated and I hope SE does more hand holding for people who won't go out and make sure they are informed.

But my primary issue with your OP is that you were not here to constructively tell SE why after X number of days you're quitting, you were whining and throwing a tantrum when this situation is completely under your control and your fault.

THEN you tried to swing it to being constructive when other people pointed that out and thank god because now this post has merit.

Your title is clearly SE clickbait and you have yet to take responsibility. You can give constructive feedback from the start, try it next time.

[R-Pete-G]

That's just a cop out. When you've played the game for that many YEARS, you should be informed. You were there when the housing system went through every change, but in this thread you're just throwing your hands up and saying SE should have spoon fed you information and held your hand. It's insane to me.

I agree that the demo process should have more in-game warnings. I even really like someone of the improvements this thread has generated and I hope SE does more hand holding for people who won't go out and make sure they are informed.

But my primary issue with your OP is that you were not here to constructively tell SE why after X number of days you're quitting, you were whining and throwing a tantrum when this situation is completely under your control and your fault.

THEN you tried to swing it to being constructive when other people pointed that out and thank god because now this post has merit.

Your title is clearly SE clickbait and you have yet to take responsibility. You can give constructive feedback from the start, try it next time.

It's a shame that pretty much straight after a post where I really stressed wanting to be constructive on this feature for the wider playerbase, you go full hyperbole and arm flailing.

- "You should be informed" is subjective. "Informed" means different things to different players, and no one retains 100% of all information on the game. Over simplifying this is as black-and-white "Good players know everything, everyone else is bad and doesn't deserve to have stuff" is just lazy arguing.

- Thinking that having a tooltip Active Help popup comparable to most other features in the game amounts to "spoon feeding" is literally insane to me.

- I'm glad that you agree that the demo process should have more in game warnings. This is the only constructive part of your post complaining I'm not being construictive, because everything else seems to be an incorrect assumption.

- I was here to constructively tell SE why, after X number of days, I'm quitting. If you read it as whining and throwing a tantrum, that's on you. I explicitly pointed out in my initial post that a) GMs had repeatedly advised me to create the post, b) the reason that I ended up deciding to do so was because I wanted to be constructive, and c) everything else was just giving context to my position. If you want to actively ignore all of that to make dramatic statements, then you're not showing yourself as someone who chooses to be informed either.

- A lot of back-and-forth has happened with other people less interested in being constructive, and more interested in mud-slinging. I posted multiple times saying I was disappointed by that, and trying to re-steer it back to being constructive. If you want to ignore all that as well, I can't help you. Perhaps the tone of the thread as a whole has influenced your impression of it, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. But pretending it was my intention because it proves your point is, I'm afraid, plain wrong. Not to mention you've basically made a post that's 80% non-constructive whining.

- The title was just me trying, as I pointed out in the initial post, to say "Look, this issue with the game was significant enough for a long-term player like me to quit". I tried to keep it short, because it's just the title. If it came across like "clickbait", then I would have thought all the times I repeatedly said I wanted to be constructive would have offset that. Apparently not.

[Neri]

Question though, when do you draw the line on how explicit warning is displayed?

Currently many people are fine with the current system, but some still find it problematic.

If SE implement another better system, but I'm sure there will still bound to be people finding it problematic again.

[R-Pete-G]

Question though, when do you draw the line on how explicit warning is displayed?

Currently many people are fine with the current system, but some still find it problematic.

If SE implement another better system, but I'm sure there will still bound to be people finding it problematic again.

Yeah, it is subjective to some degree. Everyone has the capacity to miss something, but the main complaint I have is that it's not there when you need it. What I find frustrating is that it's far below the bar Squenix have set themselves. As previously discussed, so many other features in the game have an active help popup when you start using it, giving you clear info. And they're much more minor systems than something as drastic as demolition. If it could at least be brought up to this standard of in-game messaging, then I think that's a decent balance. As a player, your expectation is set by how the game behaves in general. When there's a precedent for how the game keeps you informed, you don't realise when that precedent hasn't been met and there's more to do.

[Godwack]

Good luck elsewhere!

[Alleo]

Question though, when do you draw the line on how explicit warning is displayed?

Currently many people are fine with the current system, but some still find it problematic.

If SE implement another better system, but I'm sure there will still bound to be people finding it problematic again.

And what would it hurt us if they introduce big warnings ingame? First you would only ever get them if you own a house thus everyone who does not wont be annoyed by it and second this could simply be a one time message when you buy a house for the plot. One pop up message that will tell you all that you need to know. How would that be problematic?

Also we dont know if many people are fine with the current system or are just not posting about it. And even if only a small amount are not fine with the messages, a small change there wont hurt the others.

We are talking about a message when you buy a house, then maybe a reminder when you are getting in the dangerous time for the demolishing and the removement of the 35 days for keeping the items. Not a single thing should be annoying for anyone in the game otherwise it would already be unplayable for them since we are getting hand held so much already..(every time you delete an item you get one message for example, or the messages you get when you buy something for another job)

[Claviusnex]

Question though, when do you draw the line on how explicit warning is displayed?

Currently many people are fine with the current system, but some still find it problematic.

If SE implement another better system, but I'm sure there will still bound to be people finding it problematic again.

I don't know if anyone can tell you how many players are fine with the system or just live with it believing there is nothing they can do about it.

This question reminds me of a product I use to be the lead designer for. By default we would popup a confirmation box for one way operations such as deletes. We also allowed the user to set the default to no prompts or in the case of multiple file operations bypass for all remaining files to be processed. We had a customer who turned off the prompt and complained that they accidentally deleted something without warning. We told them we gave them the ability to double check and since they opted not to use it the fault lies with them.

In the case of housing if SE were tell the purchaser at the time of sale that they could lose the house and provide the conditions needed to avoid the loss I think that would adequately meet the need to inform the players of the rules. If they also added an in-game moogle mail and/or a login message when the house is at risk of demolition telling the player they need to take action, SE will again have met the need to inform the players. I see no reason to destroy a player's housing items after 35 days but since that is the way it is the last thing SE needs to do is be sure the player is informed of the limited time they have to recover those items. If SE were to do this I think they would have a much better argument supporting their side when a player loses their house unexpectedly. The key take away is SE needs to provide the information to the player at the appropriate time so it has a better chance of being understood and retained.

[Skivvy]

I had time to kill, so I thought I'd run a new character out to the housing area to see what information you receive. Keep in mind, this is a level 1 alt. I think someone mentioned that there is an early quest that also takes you out to the wards, so this information is not regarding that quest.

Upon first arrival into the ward, you are greeted by:


Being the dutiful player that I am, I opened up the housing "Active Help" to get more information:





Doesn't really say much, and definitely doesn't mention the timers.

But my journey is not done yet! Using the information obtained in the Active Help, I wander down to the Resident Caretaker for more information! Takes some patience to navigate as there are menus galore (in the SE way), and many options to sift through.
1st menu screen:
2nd menu screen:
3rd menu screen:

AHA! There it is! Phew! "What happens if I abandon my estate". Now, with as straightforward (massive eyeroll) as the above steps were to navigate, pardon while I nitpick a tiny bit. Simply asking "What happens if I abandon my estate" doesn't really convey the importance that there is a demolition timer looming over your head as a homeowner. Someone could easy interpret this as "Hey, what happens when I no longer want it" - which would make it seem like it's based on the player's time frame, and not some in-game timer which is extremely buried and a pain to find.


So, with my adventure now done, I am very much still in the camp of "SE needs to add more notifications in-game to make this more visible as they are currently doing a poor job of it". Several good ideas have been shared already in this thread:

1) Send a mogmail message (in-game mail)
2) Add a pop-up that shows upon login
3) Add a pop-up message right after you purchase a house
4) Update the "estate timer" to display this information / show an active timer

These are all relatively minor changes that come at no cost to the player, but would instead be a huge boon. Clear communication is never a bad thing. Especially when it involves the only item in a game that you can lose permanently when not keeping tabs on it.

[Penthea]

I had time to kill, so I thought I'd run a new character out to the housing area to see what information you receive.

This is actually worse than I thought it was. I thought the help window would at least mention demolition, even if it was vague about it. There's no question about it now. Considering your screenshots as well as the demolition timer being invisible for most of its duration, it's clear that demolition is treated as a hidden mechanic by SE.

Anyone who looks at the post this person made, and still tries to entirely blame OP for losing his house is in utter denial. No one can look at those screenshots and say that the game clearly states a house and the furniture inside can be automatically deleted without warning.

This makes me very sad and angry. Considering how all the other help messages in the game are constructed, it looks like it was a deliberate move by SE to hide information about demolition. There is no way anyone qualified in ui design could argue that all the essential information about housing is easy to find and is very clear.

[Skivvy]

This is actually worse than I thought it was. I thought the help window would at least mention demolition, even if it was vague about it. There's no question about it now. Considering your screenshots as well as the demolition timer being invisible for most of its duration, it's clear that demolition is treated as a hidden mechanic by SE.

Anyone who looks at the post this person made, and still tries to entirely blame OP for losing his house is in utter denial. No one can look at those screenshots and say that the game clearly states a house and the furniture inside can be automatically deleted without warning.

This makes me very sad and angry. Considering how all the other help messages in the game are constructed, it looks like it was a deliberate move by SE to hide information about demolition. There is no way anyone qualified in ui design could argue that all the essential information about housing is easy to find and is very clear.

I just did a bit more digging, and the housing sidequest, "Where the Heart Is Mist", begins at level 5. Within the quest text, it just refers you to the Resident Caretaker for more information (see issue above). At the end of the quest you unlock the housing ward warp. Nothing else of note occurs or is mentioned.

Walkthrough of quest (This is not my personal walkthrough, but it's from 2017)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQEV-83oNAU (2.44 minutes)