Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[ko_]

When we play this game, we do not sign a waiver stating that we will search out all producer notes, live letters, patch notes, etc. It is not the responsibility of a player to actively search for information outside of the game that they play. If the game is not providing sufficient information in-game, that is a failing of the developers.

Yes, of course you can learn far more by doing outside research, but the fact of the matter is that it is not a requirement to play this game. SE's inability to properly warn players in-game of the demolition / reclamation process is entirely on their hands. This is the only content that you can lose permanently, and they do a horrible job of letting you know that. Did you see that screenshot I posted above? If I somehow did not know about the demolition process, what exactly am I going to learn from that screen?

This thread, if nothing else, will hopefully open SE's eyes to the fact that they need to improve on this particular issue. As others have mentioned, they have obnoxious pop-ups for far less important things (e.g. achievements, which you can't even hide..). There is really no excuse for them to not be more diligent on the housing notifications.

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens. And no I don't mean on day 1. I mean when you have over 1000 plus days on whatever it is and telling peoople that. See where that gets you. See how people let you their groups with open arms and s. I'll wait. :/ You see whats wrong here? SE can do a million things and none of it changes what happened. Stop defending someone being lazy. He has well over A THOUSAND playing hours. In an mmo, you mean to tell me he's innoccent for NOT doing ANY kind of research? How in the world did he miss ALL the info being mentioned about the timers. IN FOUR POINT TWO????!!!?! SERIOUSLY? I dunno.. Sorry but I'mma have to agree to disagree here. there's nothing you can tell me to change my mind.. OP is def at fault here. I already said SE needs better stuff but THAT doesn't mean OP isn't at fault for NOT paying attention. Sorry.

[Skivvy]

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens. And no I don't mean on day 1. I mean when you have over 1000 plus days on whatever it is and telling peoople that. See where that gets you. See how people let you their groups with open arms and s. I'll wait. :/ You see whats wrong here? SE can do a million things and none of it changes what happened. Stop defending someone being lazy. He has well over A THOUSAND playing hours. In an mmo, you mean to tell me he's innoccent for NOT doing ANY kind of research? How in the world did he miss ALL the info being mentioned about the timers. IN FOUR POINT TWO????!!!?! SERIOUSLY? I dunno.. Sorry but I'mma have to agree to disagree here. there's nothing you can tell me to change my mind.. OP is def at fault here. I already said SE needs better stuff but THAT doesn't mean OP isn't at fault for NOT paying attention. Sorry.

You can absolutely do raiding without any outside research. You have your tooltips. You can slowly get through it with trial and error. How do you think people that get World Firsts manage? There are no guides for new content, and yet they manage to clear it. So that argument doesn't work at all.

Also, OP has already said several times they are not blaming SE. They are trying to bring awareness and share their thoughts as the GM suggested.

[ko_]

You can absolutely do raiding without any outside research. You have your tooltips. You can slowly get through it with trial and error. How do you think people that get World Firsts manage? There are no guides for new content, and yet they manage to clear it. So that argument doesn't work at all.

Also, OP has already said several times they are not blaming SE. They are trying to bring awareness and share their thoughts as the GM suggested.

I said NOT on day 1 tho. You missed that part. You also missed the part where I said go into a raid talking like you have over 1000 days played NEVER looking at guides and whatnot. You would not be accepted. And EVERYONE i nthat group is going to tell you to read a guide etc etc. Again want proof.. - tales of a dutyfinder - My point being is pointing at SE for a user error is messed up and is the sole reason we can never have anything with teeth cause everyone cries like a baby cause - the game didn't hold my hand- When it shouldn't. You should know enough about games that - sonic doesn't play like mario or crash.- Why? Cause just because one mmo didn't kill your house with a timer does NOT mean they ALL follow the same rules. If you can't find it ingame, ask someone , if they don't know - which EVERYONE knew here- then google it. There was NO excuse for him to NOT know about any of those timers. NOT when people blew up about it like a year ago, and even more before that. Housing has been a HUGE topic in this game since I've been here for what... 2 years and a half years. EVERYONE was talking about it. If you have enough sense to come to the freaking fourms then what is your excuse for not knowing? The info is THERE. Look for it.

No but he pointed his finger at SE which ofcourse people will bandwagon and blame SE when this entire thing is becuase of HIS user error. The onkly point I was and have been making this entire time was if he just had enough sense to google. He'll have his stuff, he'll have everything. Just because you're not told to go outside the game to look things up doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T. Will won't hear anyone say this about anything else in the game.. so why treat this one different... you don't. So if you choose to NOT go outside and learn then what happens to you is your fault cause the info is def out there. SE doesn't need to baby us all the time.

[Skivvy]

I said NOT on day 1 tho. You missed that part. You also missed the part where I said go into a raid talking like you have over 1000 days played NEVER looking at guides and whatnot. You would not be accepted. And EVERYONE i nthat group is going to tell you to read a guide etc etc. Again want proof.. - tales of a dutyfinder - My point being is pointing at SE for a user error is messed up and is the sole reason we can never have anything with teeth cause everyone cries like a baby cause - the game didn't hold my hand- When it shouldn't. You should know enough about games that - sonic doesn't play like mario or crash.- Why? Cause just because one mmo didn't kill your house with a timer does NOT mean they ALL follow the same rules. If you can't find it ingame, ask someone , if they don't know - which EVERYONE knew here- then google it. There was NO excuse for him to NOT know about any of those timers. NOT when people blew up about it like a year ago, and even more before that. Housing has been a HUGE topic in this game since I've been here for what... 2 years and a half years. EVERYONE was talking about it. If you have enough sense to come to the freaking fourms then what is your excuse for not knowing? The info is THERE. Look for it.

No but he pointed his finger at SE which ofcourse people will bandwagon and blame SE when this entire thing is becuase of HIS user error. The onkly point I was and have been making this entire time was if he just had enough sense to google. He'll have his stuff, he'll have everything. Just because you're not told to go outside the game to look things up doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T. Will won't hear anyone say this about anything else in the game.. so why treat this one different... you don't. So if you choose to NOT go outside and learn then what happens to you is your fault cause the info is def out there. SE doesn't need to baby us all the time.

World first clears are a totally valid point and work against your argument of requiring outside knowledge. But even for us plebs who follow at a later date, a particular group can set whatever requirements they wish. Some like to go into fights blind, some require you to watch a video. The point is though, none of it is required by the game itself. These requirements to look up a fight are from players who want to have an easier time of a fight.

Anyway, we're obviously never going to see eye to eye on this. You want to blame the players for missing something that is not obvious in-game, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt they had no knowledge of the situation. Regardless of where the fault lies in this particular situation, even you have agreed that SE could improve upon it. That should be the takeaway of this thread. How can SE improve their shoddy housing demolition notification system?

No one here is crying like a baby over things. I'd say that plenty of valid points and suggestions have been brought up, but it's continually getting buried by those who have some odd refusal to move on from blaming OP.

[Alleo]

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens.

The person that first writes the guide that will help others does not have one themselves and can still clear these things and get every information ingame. Heck I would dare and say that most people just read guides because they dont want to take the time to learn it themselves. (And there is nothing wrong with that because not everyone can do all the maths and calculate the perfect rotation - I suck at maths for example) But lets not pretend that the game would otherwise be unplayable. People can and did beat raids or learn their job without one. The problem is that not reading it up and playing badly does not take something away from the game. It does not delete your armor or any other hard work. So all the informations you get ingame are enough to play it and most of the time its enough to play it quite well, everything else is just for those that want to go beyond that.

Housing demolishing is a basic information, necessary to even own a house for a long time. (Because a lot of people probably do take breaks) Thus it should have all the information ingame. And again the OP has already stated that they dont blame the timer but that it would be better to have more notifications because it can happen to miss it all and because emails can be lost (I never received mine either but thankfully I knew when to get bacK). In the end his biggest problem was the destruction of all his housing items and that should be a No Go.

So yes he is at fault but that does not stop SE from taking part of the blame by not providing a good tutorial ingame and it definetely does not give them a free pass for the destruction of items. And no matter if the OP is at fault or not, this could happen to more people and simple solutions could stop any cases from happening in the future. And by posting their case they maybe have brought some attention to it.

[Niwashi]

Go into a raid with that logic, play black mage with that logic.. do anything else outside of housing with that logic want watch what happens.

Even ignoring the fact that you can do all those things without looking up info from outside the game (and I'm only ignoring that because several other people have already pointed it out), someone who wants to look up info before running a raid, for instance, knows when they're running a raid. There are a great many things in this game I don't know much about because I haven't gotten to them so haven't bothered to look them up. When I get to them, I can decide whether to look up more info on it.

The problem with the lack of IN GAME notification on housing demolition, is that if people don't know about it, they won't know it's something to look up. The OP knew how to do everything she was overtly trying to do with her house. It wasn't apparent that something wasn't working. If she couldn't figure out how to place a furniture item or something, she would probably have looked that up or asked someone, because she'd be aware of it as an issue. But when someone can do everything they're trying to do and no problem presents itself, people aren't going to randomly decide "Everything's fine, so I'd better head to Google to search out every pitfall in case some hidden feature is going to take it all away." There is absolutely nothing else in the game that requires that sort of preemptive research. For everything else, at worst, you can look stuff up when it becomes relevant.

For the one and only feature of the game that you have to know about in advance, before it becomes an issue, it's not unreasonable to suggest that maybe there should be a clear indication of it in the actual game.