Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[Hestzhyen]

I'm not threathen and I don't think anyone else is. The point everyone seems to be missing is OP himself didn't look into anything and lose his house because of it. And cause of his own mess up he's crying about quiting? Something he could've prevented in the first place? How is this a SE issue? and not a user issue?

Because the messaging about it sucks. When you're going to permanently delete player items (including paid ones!) you need to be crystal clear about when that's happening. Expecting players to remember the deletion tidbits as part of the torrent of info you get early game is not sufficient at all.

The reality of the situation is that if you don't visit your home every 30 days you will lose it. Sucks, but that is a necessary evil. What OP is peeved about is that there is no "pick up your stuff before it's gone forever" message when the deletion date is approaching. Any and all messaging about losing the house and all your collected items is buried in a wall of text when you get access to housing areas around level 15, usually well before you're even able to consider buying a plot. If one doesn't check in to their home maybe they really don't need/want it, the system will reclaim it regardless. But not reminding people to get their stuff before it's deleted is a stupid and pointlessly anti-player attitude on SE's part. We get spammed with notifications for all kinds of trivial things, why not have a dialogue box pop up on log-in saying "Your housing items will be destroyed if not picked up in x days. Please visit [NPC] at [location] to reclaim them."? The timer is there, the system for including dynamic attributes in messaging is there, timed contextual notification triggers are there, all they have to do is create the message and a flag to display it. If SE can't do the right thing and keep player inventories even after housing is reclaimed, the absolute least they can do is notify players that the furnishings will be gone for good if they don't collect them.

[Skivvy]

I'm not threathen and I don't think anyone else is. The point everyone seems to be missing is OP himself didn't look into anything and lose his house because of it. And cause of his own mess up he's crying about quiting? Something he could've prevented in the first place? How is this a SE issue? and not a user issue?

There is no reason to always be so hostile in your posts. OP was asked by the GMs to share their feelings on the forums, so here they are. Topics like these are a good way to open up conversations on the way things can be better handled in the future. Obviously there is no way to turn back time and reclaim all the lost items (which is the real kicker here, if you've been reading the posts by OP), but it can hopefully bring some good for the progression of the game and how they handle things moving forward.

[Kirsten_Rev]

Sorry I don't think it's good enough reason to justify players being punished by a system that seems designed to be unclear. The sort of attitude that's like "the system should remain unclear and awkward so I can get a house" is frankly mean and spiteful.

They should instead leave their server or devote their love for housing by advocating for the system to be improved. I know what it's like to not have a house. When I didn't have one I didn't become uppity or crazy whenever someone had ideas on improving the demolition system.

I wholeheartedly agree, but it's still a motivating factor.

I'm not threathen and I don't think anyone else is. The point everyone seems to be missing is OP himself didn't look into anything and lose his house because of it. And cause of his own mess up he's crying about quiting? Something he could've prevented in the first place? How is this a SE issue? and not a user issue?

Where do you suggest we draw the line on what is or is not a user issue? What if SE notified about housing demolition only in the EULA? What if they had a policy of deleting your house wholesale if you dropped your subscription for any reason? Where does it stop?

There are things that people can prevent, and things that people should be reasonably expected to prevent. Clearly this is a scenario the OP could have prevented, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect. Housing is the only system that has consequences for taking a break; it's the only in-game content that triggers email contacts; it's the only timer in the game to be active only when it's close to expiring; it's one of only a few timers that has to be accessed via a secondary tab within the Timers tab. I'd say this constitutes an unreasonable burden on the player. If you disagree, may I ask why? Again I point to the EULA example, or housing deletion if one's subscription lapses. Would those be fair game too, in your mind?

Regardless of your response, there's also one other factor about this that should demand SE take action: it impacts a player's sense of attachment to Eorzea. I'd argue that Housing, as much or more than any in-game system, tends to anchor people to FFXIV. It offers near-endless customization, activities, etc. Losing one's house is extremely likely to cause someone to at least consider quitting, even if they don't ultimately follow through. Therefore, from a business standpoint, SE should want to avoid this happening at all costs. A simple mechanism like the Achievements pop-up when time gets short, and making the timer always visible in the main Timers tab, would go a long way toward accomplishing this - and they can clearly do both.

[JunseiKei]

While this is a nice find it still doesn't change that you are given this information when you first enter a residential area since demolition was introduced. For most players these days it's when they're a low lvl sprout and barely know how the game works.

That information is plainly not relevant to a sprout and easily results in being forgotten given said player won't even have the ability to purchase any form of housing until after quite a lot of time has passed. As things are now with this, it's like telling a lvl 15 gatherer how collectables work even though they're nowhere near meeting the requirements to even gather them. The timing of when the information about demolition is presented makes very little sense.

Personal responsibility. You invest into something that you're into and make sure you understand it. There comes a point that the game can only do so much and the rest falls on the player. This is very much this case.

QoL changes are nice and all, but this has been a hot topic since it was introduced in patch 3.1. It's not obscure. It's not hidden. Home-owners and non have complained about it (some even admitting it's a necessary evil given the limitations of the houses); you'd have to have been playing in a very small bubble to not know about it.

[Penthea]

Personal responsibility. You invest into something that you're into and make sure you understand it. There comes a point that the game can only do so much and the rest falls on the player. This is very much this case.

So what you're saying is SE should continue to tell lvl 15 sprouts about demolition and punish them later if they forget about it when they finally get a house at least several weeks if not several months later? This isn't what happened to OP but it has happened to other people. OP's issue highlights a glaring flaw in how players are informed of the existence of demolition.

OP could have done better for himself, that's for sure. It is unusual for a player with his veteran status to miss something like this. He even admitted this. But his issue shows that the timing of when the information regarding demolition is presented is very badly timed. It should not be whenever you first enter a housing district. It should be when you actually interact with the system to purchase a house, like every other tutorial in the game. You don't get tomestone tutorials as soon as you get into Mor Dhona. You get them when you actually get the currency. Why is housing the only tutorial in the game that has timing that makes no sense?

Furthermore we get all sorts of warnings about throwing away items, selling items to the retainer, etc...but none when the game literally deletes your stuff automatically? Why do we have warnings for such trivial items, and none for something extremely expensive and rare like houses and the furniture inside? I don't think anyone in the game thinks the 3 hi-options they sold to their retainer matters more than their house.

Regardless of your response, there's also one other factor about this that should demand SE take action: it impacts a player's sense of attachment to Eorzea. I'd argue that Housing, as much or more than any in-game system, tends to anchor people to FFXIV. It offers near-endless customization, activities, etc. Losing one's house is extremely likely to cause someone to at least consider quitting, even if they don't ultimately follow through. Therefore, from a business standpoint, SE should want to avoid this happening at all costs. A simple mechanism like the Achievements pop-up when time gets short, and making the timer always visible in the main Timers tab, would go a long way toward accomplishing this - and they can clearly do both.

This is an excellent point. It's far from unusual to see players say they would quit if they lost their house. And we have OP on the fence because of this. It is in SE's interests to keep their players happy, and taking away their stuff along with poor communication about it does the opposite.

[Kirsten_Rev]

Personal responsibility. You invest into something that you're into and make sure you understand it. There comes a point that the game can only do so much and the rest falls on the player. This is very much this case.

Are you honestly suggesting that an explanation at level 15 and an occasionally-visible timer buried in a tab that the vast majority of players never have any reason to click on is the most SE can do? That's a more pessimistic statement on SE's competency than even I'm prepared to make, and I'm rather pessimistic about their development skills.

SE could easily introduce pop-up windows when demolition is nearing (they've already done it with Achievements). They could easily make the demolition timer visible all the time. They could easily place the demolition timer alongside the rest of the timers, so that players can track it more easily. That's just a few ideas, off the top of my head.

Or, you know, they can keep letting the community get into these fights, wherein players air legitimate concerns and share stories of legitimate loss, only to be victim-shamed by people who seemingly take offense at anything remotely critical of SE. It's a swell way to inspire our community to become as toxic as WoW's, though that's not an aspect of WoW I'd want in FFXIV.

[JunseiKei]

So what you're saying is SE should continue to tell lvl 15 sprouts about demolition and punish them later if they forget about it when they finally get a house at least several weeks if not several months later? This isn't what happened to OP but it has happened to other people. OP's issue highlights a glaring flaw in how players are informed of the existence of demolition.

OP could have done better for himself, that's for sure. It is unusual for a player with his veteran status to miss something like this. He even admitted this. But his issue shows that the timing of when the information regarding demolition is very badly timed. It should not be whenever you first enter a housing district. It should be when you actually interact with the system to purchase a house, like every other tutorial in the game. You don't get tomestone tutorials as soon as you get into Mor Dhona. You get them when you actually get the currency. Why is housing the only tutorial in the game that has timing that makes no sense?

Furthermore we get all sorts of warnings about throwing away items, selling items to the retainer, etc...but none when the game literally deletes your stuff automatically? Why do we have warnings for such trivial items, and none for something extremely expensive and rare like houses and the furniture inside? I don't think anyone in the game thinks the 3 hi-options they sold to their retainer matters more than their house.

First of all, I actually don't even know when housing demolition gets mentioned in the game. I've literally had a house before auto demolition was in the game. I swear I've gotten one of those annoying UI pop ups even telling me about the auto demolition sometime during Stormblood (might even be linked to your UI settings, I genuinely don't know at this point). I'd swear the game could almost actually slap our characters in the back of the head and people would still say they didn't know about auto demolition.

Secondly, sure. If you're willing to throw away your 3+ years of playing a game over fluff without ever looking into it for this particular game, yes, because of personal responsibility. *Points to signature and it saying she's cynical.* We're also taking OP, and those other people's, word as fact and not an unwillingness to admit they made a mistake and found an easy scapegoat. I'd like to think a level 15 that eventually does get into housing in FFXIV would take the few minutes it'd take to Google "FFXIV housing" (this is the second link I turned up searching those two quoted words, which even mentions housing reclamation) to avoid the whole issue to begin with because that's just responsible and makes sense.

Thirdly, again, auto demolition is almost synonymous with FFXIV housing. Just about looking up anything about it anywhere mentions this (often angrily).

Personal. Responsibility.

[Penthea]

First of all, I actually don't even know when housing demolition gets mentioned in the game.

Well I told you. It's when you first enter a housing district after it gets introduced. These days for most people it means they're lvl 15 sprouts getting a tutorial on a system they can't even interact with, and probably won't for a few weeks if not months, or maybe a year. They're not going to remember it after so much time has passed.

I'd like to think a level 15 that eventually does get into housing in FFXIV would take the few minutes it'd take to Google "FFXIV housing"

Lol are you serious? You really think lvl 15 players are going to google that when their main goal is usually to get xp? They don't google the housing system, they leave, finish the quest, get their xp and move on to the next quest.

Realised I misread the above.

I don't think players should be expected to go to an outside source to get information, especially when no other content in the game requires this at all.

Sure people look up savage guides, but do you have to in order to pass the content? No. The people who write the guides play in this manner among many other people who prefer to learn as they go.

Personal. Responsibility.

But somehow SE don't trust us to sell items to our retainers properly or to throw away anything without warnings. SE don't trust us to track our currency so they tell us when we cap. SE don't trust us to repair our gear so they tell us when the durability is very low. SE do not trust us with such basic things, but they trust us with a house and everything inside?

SE is extremely inconsistent when it comes to how they think players should handle personal responsibility.

[Soraki-Muppe]

Let me get this straight, the timer on the house is 45days? Then the amount of time the items are stored with an npc is 35days?
45+35=80, so 80+ days of not caring about this feature would result in this, or am I wrong here?

But let us say these 80+ days are the right amount of time not caring about this feature it brings me to this.
Seeing as how housing is a limited resource in this game, is it not better to let those who will use it partake in it rather then someone who does not bother with it for more then 80 days? The best solution would of course be for SE to find a way in which housing was not limited, or at least store the items after a demolition for an unlimited amount of time. But still, a feature your not using for more then 80 days is a feature I find it hard to believe you would miss.

[ko_]

I wholeheartedly agree, but it's still a motivating factor.


Where do you suggest we draw the line on what is or is not a user issue? What if SE notified about housing demolition only in the EULA? What if they had a policy of deleting your house wholesale if you dropped your subscription for any reason? Where does it stop?

There are things that people can prevent, and things that people should be reasonably expected to prevent. Clearly this is a scenario the OP could have prevented, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect. Housing is the only system that has consequences for taking a break; it's the only in-game content that triggers email contacts; it's the only timer in the game to be active only when it's close to expiring; it's one of only a few timers that has to be accessed via a secondary tab within the Timers tab. I'd say this constitutes an unreasonable burden on the player. If you disagree, may I ask why? Again I point to the EULA example, or housing deletion if one's subscription lapses. Would those be fair game too, in your mind?
.

Going to answer your points by point. If it's only in the EULA then you shoul;d read it. if you don't want to read it cause yeah I know .. noone does. Then google is STILL my go too. Cause I want real world experience on the issue. So I'd google it. So that's still a user issue, If you dropped your sub? Honestly I think they SHOULD do that. It'll free up ALOT of space and if you dropped your sub you aren't playing anyway. So what good is your house for if you aren't paying the rent to have it there? I'd say it stops there tho. And yes I do disagree cause in this very case I'll repeat what I said twice. This NEVER would've happened to OP had he done his homework. And it's not even that much to do.. How hard is it to google freaking -housing in FFXIV-? Seriously? So we're going to baby an adult who couldn't take time out his day to google something that's supposely important to him? And that is SE's fault how? Is their system perfect... heck no!!!! It needs TONS of work, but saying that does NOT mean OP is off the hook and SE should feel bad for a user's mistake. Had SE taken his house if he was using it normally? That'll be a WAY different story and SE would have to answer for that. But a user not doing his own homework is NOT SE 's problem. Yeah he lost paid items.. but HE lost those items by not taking care of them. He didn't read the fine print and here's the kicker DIDN'T care too. THAT is why I find it silly he's quiting over something HE didn't do. This is all on him and blaming SE for OP's mistake is wrong. Now we want to talk about how SE can fix their issues is a different topic and I'll agree.. alot can be done.. but NONE of that has anything to do with OP.