Seriously, If You're Only Going To Create Designs For Women, Just Genderlock

[MoroMurasaki]

Were this a F2P game this logic would make 100% sense as the game would need to sell to the majority to keep the lights on. But since we're not playing TERA its a moot point. The next expansion isn't likely going to have a miqo exclusive class regardless how much more use a miqo class would get compared to an elezen.

It isn't about need, it's about want. SE is a huge company and they didn't get to be where they are by just 'keeping the lights on '.

The dichotomy between gender and glamour is not unlike the one between raiders and content creation. There is comparatively little truly difficult raid content out there because comparatively fewer people participate in that content. At this point there are only two fights per Savage tier that have any real teeth to them especially after gearing up and then there's Ultimate. Compare that to the huge swathe of casual friendly content from crafting to dungeoning to 24mans to maps, the list goes on. More people participate at that level so more is invested in creating things for them to do.

More people play female characters so more is invested in giving them things to wear.

Your Miqo-only class example is moot. We don't have racially locked classes for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is the simple existence of fantasia. It also goes against the idea of being able to level basically everything on one character. SE clearly doesn't want to lock people out of options which is probably why so many glamour options are made unisex to appeal to the largest demographic possible.

You don't have to be male to want to fight for such a thing. It kind of seems like you have some sort of hate against women.. let's get that out of here please. This is a topic about wanting to have more casual glamour for male characters. Not a hate topic.

Well said.

By "specifically for males" I didn't mean gender-locking the male gear (though I now realise it reads like that), but I do think they could do with more outfits where they set out to design something that primarily suits male characters, and appeal to a different fashion taste than their usual gear, but still make it available to everyone.

Of course, it seems that part of the issue is what they perceive to be male fashion in the first place - whether it's because of cutural differences or personal design taste. They're starting from a different reference point.

I suppose we will agree to disagree here? I think there is enough glamour that fits this idea existing already, given the comparatively narrower breadth of male fashion to begin with as well as the majority masculine adventuring gear which can often be mixed in to great effect.

I agree with the idea that the perspective of the dev team could be impacting this as a whole and perhaps their is a cultural element as well. I am suddenly quite curious as to how the JP players feel about this issue as a whole.

[Duskane]

happens too often hairstyles,event gear and glamor etc etc Generally one sided
and when males do get a nice exclusive always those people who ask for it to be gender neutral (prince,Butler set example)

considering they can make male and female sets look completely different without having a gender lock like WHM and AST af 3 sure they can do it for future gear instead of males waiting months for there equivalent of it or at least i wish they would, not much reason the autumn thavanarian tops are split up.
but i do like the coat they are adding though i didn't really see it as feminine.

[Duskane]

More people play female characters so more is invested in giving them things to wear.

the issue here is if you keep supporting the majority and not caring about the minority they just leave and you lose consumers which is a loss of money
and that majority will just keep getting smaller and smaller as more and more people leave

gotta support all groups in someway or another so they don't feel left out.

[BillyKaplan]

More people play female characters so more is invested in giving them things to wear.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many people admit they play female characters because of the glamour situation.

[MoroMurasaki]

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many people admit they play female characters because of the glamour situation.

I addressed this already in response to Iscah I believe, the idea of a feedback loop that's causing both problems to exacerbate each other. I think it's a fine point. The question then becomes who is responsible for breaking it, though? Arguments can be made for both sides and I don't think there is a clear cut answer.

I do think based on SE's history whether you believe they're responsible for breaking the cycle or not it's naive to assume they're going to.

the issue here is if you keep supporting the majority and not caring about the minority they just leave and you lose consumers which is a loss of money
and that majority will just keep getting smaller and smaller as more and more people leave

gotta support all groups in someway or another so they don't feel left out.

They do support male characters, just not enough for some people in this thread. I know several guys that play male characters, they're just as into glamour as the rest of us. SE is giving them what they want.

There is a difference between cutting out a minority entirely and just not catering to them the same way you do your key demographic.

[Iscah]

Says a woman(?) playing a female character. And no, feminine clothing for males IS a bad thing in this game, especially when SE can't come up with any good masculine gear. Some things just work, some things really won't work. Have you not seen the sh*t SE has been giving us since HW? The morbidly ugly caster Stormblood sets should be enough to make people say "WTF?" alone. SE doesn't know how to make modern and masculine looking gear. Some guys may like the dresses, some may even play female characters just for THEIR glamour, but there are males who play male characters (like myself), that don't want to be thrown dresses with high heels for their BLMs.

She just gave you a list of things that are not dresses that you are entirely free to glamour over the gear you hate so much.

And did you read the post I wrote to you pointing out the Stormblood mage gear that is also not dresses?


This is the Lv66 healer gear. Casters get the same in black-and-purple. It is not a dress.


This is the Lv68 caster gear. It is also not a dress.


The black mage job gear is also not a dress, and has flat-soled boots. The red mage gear is historical male clothing. The summoner gear is... weird. (But you don't have to wear it.)

It is not "modern-looking gear" because it is not supposed to be. It doesn't resemble modern clothing for either gender. It is fantasy-themed clothing for a fantasy-themed setting, and you have other options. Whether there are enough options is a separate debate which the rest of us *are* having while you rage at an inaccurate description of what gear is currently available.

What clothing do you expect to be given to mages in a fantasy setting? Serious question.


And as chance would have it, just now I spotted someone wearing the bonewicca "high heels" (the ONLY recent footwear I'm aware of that isn't flat-soled boots or occasionally sandals) and had a good look at them. They are not women's shoes, they are armour specifically designed to resemble animal feet, and the heel is there to hold the foot off the ground in a digitigrade position. (Also it is from the user-submitted design competition - and people complained when SE gave it normal pants instead of the Shisui-style gaping-hole-over-inner-thighs design from the original entry.)



Personally I wouldn't equip it for either gender since they look terribly impractical to fight in. Which is, again, why the vast majority of leveling gear gives us flat-soled shoes.

[Rokke]

It isn't about need, it's about want. SE is a huge company and they didn't get to be where they are by just 'keeping the lights on '. The dichotomy between gender and glamour is not unlike the one between raiders and content creation. There is comparatively little truly difficult raid content out there because comparatively fewer people participate in that content. At this point there are only two fights per Savage tier that have any real teeth to them especially after gearing up and then there's Ultimate. Compare that to the huge swathe of casual friendly content from crafting to dungeoning to 24mans to maps, the list goes on. More people participate at that level so more is invested in creating things for them to do.More people play female characters so more is invested in giving them things to wear.

Indeed! Which is why they don't need to rely on milking waifu money, especially when it involves items obtained without spending irl monies. In game free items like crafted sets have zero reason to be unisex + female. Holiday free event sets should have equal amount of effort put into them. Were we at keeping the lights on mode, I'd be begrudgingly understanding... but we're not. SE isn't a small indie company. They have the means to make nice pixel clothes for everyone who plays their game.

Your Miqo-only class example is moot. We don't have racially locked classes for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is the simple existence of fantasia. It also goes against the idea of being able to level basically everything on one character. SE clearly doesn't want to lock people out of options which is probably why so many glamour options are made unisex to appeal to the largest demographic possible.

I mean, if we're going to count fantasias as a defense of keeping every class unlocked, we should probably use it as a defense of keeping glamour numbers/effort even.

Personally, I have no issue with unisexed items. The glamour imbalance and the level of effort put into outfits, however, isn't fair and has no business in game where I pay $15 regardless of what gender I play as with the additional ability to flip flop between the two as often as I please. If they want to half ass (or not include) male sets I'll gladly accept the legacy account pricing as a fair trade.

[Iscah]

I suppose we will agree to disagree here? I think there is enough glamour that fits this idea existing already, given the comparatively narrower breadth of male fashion to begin with as well as the majority masculine adventuring gear which can often be mixed in to great effect.

I agree with the idea that the perspective of the dev team could be impacting this as a whole and perhaps their is a cultural element as well. I am suddenly quite curious as to how the JP players feel about this issue as a whole.

Agree to kinda-sorta disagree anyway. Personally I'm quite happy with what's available for my male characters, but there seem to be a lot of complaints from other people who are males looking for male glamour items for their male characters... so, being a female who's happy to dress her male characters up in the fantasy-themed adventuring gear, I'm not going to say "you've got enough glamour already" when I don't know if that's a fair thing to say from their perspective. I think I've tried to argue it in past, Maybe they have a point, maybe they don't, but I don't think I can say.

Maybe there are a few simple things that could be added to 'cover all the bases' and make them happy. (Or maybe there'll always be something more that's lacking, and some people are just never happy. As the overall mood of this forum seems to suggest.)

I have argued in the past that I don't think it's just the men's fashion that's lacking things - I feel like I'm a broken record over this, but I'm personally unhappy with the lack of women's skirts that come with pants or tights underneath them - even the ones intended for melee fighters - and how often you can see up them when in action. If I avoid those, that leaves me with the short Ramie skirt and the floor-length Eikon skirts. A mid-length skirt with tights under it would go a long way for glamour potential for me, and I don't want to be told "you've already got enough" by someone who doesn't see the problem. So I don't want to be 'that person' to someone else.

Just saying "there should be more male stuff" isn't really helpful, but if there are specific 'holes' they could suggest to fill in, maybe they have a point.

[Fourbestintoner]

Females get all the level 1 flavour of the month/slutgear, but a lot of the actual gear look better on men, there aren't a lot fending sets that look decent on female chars and casting/healer is awful on either.