Yet again no promised DRK rework

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It's not surprising that they didn't change Drk. Numbers wise they're balanced, but it doesn't address the real issue as to why Pld is the OT and Warrior is the MT.

I'll grant you the Dark Arts spam is tiresome though. I hate that, a lot.

The main reasons why PLD is OT and WAR is MT, is WAR has superior aggro grab, while PLDs have the weakest and also need to waste a GCD pulling, which overall causes them to miss raid buffs during their rotation.

WAR is defensively stronger than PLD and even more so with inner beast if in defiance, while PLD brings cover which can act as a CD with 20% mitigation and, intervention, while paired with rampart or sentinel can make a super strong CD saving the MTs CDs. Cover and intervention are pretty pointless as MT outside of a super small niche.

PLD is the OT, WAR is MT, this ain't even an issue to be addressed and probably won't be addressed either.

[Khalithar]

Snip

You misunderstand.

I was referring to fixing the reason why drk doesn't have a place in either of those spots. I've cleared savage mode, I know how the tanks work.

The "fix" that was I was referring to specifically, is the fact that War/Pld have way too much synergy and are objectively better than any other tank combination in the current savage mode content. Until they fix that, there is no reason to bring a drk because War/Pld work far too well together. If you stack them up against each other at 70, Drk and Pld are more or less balanced and just about even in the dps they pull and their personal mitigation but in situations where you need two of them? War/Pld is far too good.

Most complaints are about DRK's kit and just the overall feel of the job. You spend nearly twenty levels with next to no cooldowns that aren't role actions. Their first innate cooldown isn't even useful in most situations. Then you spend a little more than twenty more levels with again pretty much no mitigation until 70.

I'm aware of this.

However, you don't need tons of mitigation in level 50 content. For better or worse, SE balances around the level cap. Not saying that's good, not saying that's bad, but it's what they do. Whenever issues of job balance come in to play I focus on how they perform at the level cap and how they perform in the most difficult content. As is, EVERY job is viable for ex dungeons and other throwaway content, it's always balance in savage mode that folks tend to focus on.

[DaulBan]

You misunderstand.

I was referring to fixing the reason why drk doesn't have a place in either of those spots. I've cleared savage mode, I know how the tanks work.

The "fix" that was I was referring to specifically, is the fact that War/Pld have way too much synergy and are objectively better than any other tank combination in the current savage mode content. Until they fix that, there is no reason to bring a drk because War/Pld work far too well together. If you stack them up against each other at 70, Drk and Pld are more or less balanced and just about even in the dps they pull and their personal mitigation but in situations where you need two of them? War/Pld is far too good.

While I certainly agree that WAR/PLD is the best comp, I do think it's a bit over-emphasized how good the comp is. As a direct comparison, the two things you lose going from WAR to DRK are DPS and Shake, the former more useful than the latter. If you're willing to give up that DPS -- which is going to depend a lot on your personal performance with WAR as the DRK -- then the only remaining thing is shake. Shake is good, incredibly so. It, along with galvanize effects and veil sort of break the speedkill meta with how it helps generate LB.

While that is true, in the relatively casual play that most raiders operate the 4k-8k shield may or may not really have a material effect on raid survival. In most cases the damage that it would mitigate is just as easily managed by several different healer cooldowns that they have on tap as well. Between healer CDs, reprisal, and DPS role actions, the difference in resilience of the group is pretty minimal. Case and point DRK in World First UCoB and UWU. They're very strong data points to indicate that the lack of shake is not a crippling issue.

As such, I'd reiterate that while WAR/PLD is better than DRK/PLD (with slim exceptions) the difference between the two is mostly a matter of DPS, not a matter of surviving. The issue of not bringing a PLD is its own bag of bones, in part because PLD tech is just too good for the rest of the tanks. But really that's more of a 'cover' conundrum than anything else.

[Khalithar]

As such, I'd reiterate that while WAR/PLD is better than DRK/PLD (with slim exceptions) the difference between the two is mostly a matter of DPS, not a matter of surviving. The issue of not bringing a PLD is its own bag of bones, in part because PLD tech is just too good for the rest of the tanks. But really that's more of a 'cover' conundrum than anything else.

These are the two other issues I actually forgot to mention and I'm glad you brought it up as the two tie in together. War/Pld have the highest dps together by a slim margin on paper, however, Cover/Tempered Will is useful in 3/5 encounters for allowing the warrior to stay on the target without having to break off which actually allows the combo to push their DPS even higher since their uptime and DPS would be higher than any other combination.

That ties in to the other issue, the DPS meta we have right now. I won't go too much in to it since that's outside the scope of this thread, but right now every encounter favors the raid maxing out their DPS in all scenarios. Then when you factor in the higher dps and the utility on top of that? I think War/Pld is too good and has too much synergy right now.