Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Jonnykit]

Using single target in a group of 3+ is just garbage, especially at level 62. Levels 30 to 62 should be plenty of time for someone to realize that 100 potency (or whatever) spread over 3 targets is more DPS than 240 potency to one target. Running with people who don’t use their AoE gets old pretty fast - start throwing the F word around and you better believe I’m not healing that person regardless of it increasing the length of the dungeon. Honestly, how fast is it even going when they’re not being efficient anyway? I’ve let people die for less than that.

I’m not saying that healer was right but personally I probably would’ve had the same reaction.

I like to add that at the time we were only doing the first 3 slug mobs. In my opinion I believe that using Bishop turret and single target rotation was quicker than spamming spread shot on 2-3 targets. I believe Spread Shot is more effective on 4+. If you think what I was doing garbage your entitled to it. I won't say your wrong. I should not have used the F word at all but at the time I was not in a good mood to begin with so it lead to me taking what they had wrote negatively and boom! things went south. You ever watched The Martian? There is a part in the movie where they tell him he has to tear apart the MAV. His reply is "Are you ****ing kidding me?" and Vincent is trying to figure out how he is saying it.

[Moonfish]

Got Bardams Mettle in-progress as SMN with an AST, DRK and BLM. They were on the last boss but something like 38 minutes in-progress when I joined. I quickly found out why someone had quit and why they had spent 38 minutes without clearing.

First pull the AST pulls with their dot. BLM went down like a sack of bricks after he pulled off the healer. It was sloppy and wipe. Second pull, AST only casted one aspected helios and wipe. Third pull we made it to add phase and tank didn’t even try to pick it up. I kited it as best I could but I accidentally ran into the bosses divebomb - woops. Healer raised me before he took the add to the face, somehow it died and me and the tank were up. Swiftcast raise the healer, start summoning my egi when the second add spawns and insta gibs me, then the healer. Tank finally picked it up as we were all dead.

The only advice I could’ve given was to do the very basics of their jobs - pick up adds and heal more - things they shouldn’t even have to think about at level 65. Noped out of there and feel bad for whoever takes my place.

[Aosha]

I don't mind advice, I do mind being order to do something or feeling like I am. "use spread shot" did not seem like advice to me and I got angry.
[... ]I honestly believed that using spread shot would not yield better results on 3 targets or less than single target focusing.

I like to add that at the time we were only doing the first 3 slug mobs. In my opinion I believe that using Bishop turret and single target rotation was quicker than spamming spread shot on 2-3 targets. I believe Spread Shot is more effective on 4+.

Often when trying to type out advice mid-combat or between pulls, it'll end up being something short and blunt like that. I try to put it as "pls use [autotranslate](Spread Shot)", but when I'm trying to actively participate in the fight and dance around AoEs, it'll usually not be feasible.


As for the spread shot damage, it's not a matter of believing, but simple math you can do on your phone calculator, with no info needed but the tooltips you have available:

Assuming (and it's a big assumption), that you proc your single target skills every time. Your 3 GCD rotation is going to end up doing the following:
160+200+240=600 damage, or 200 per GCD. If you had ammunition in the chamber, that's 185+225+265=675, or 225 per GCD.

At X number of enemies, the Spread Shots in the same time would be
80*X+80*X+80*X, or 240*X.
At 2 this is 480 (160/GCD, the equivalent of spamming your combo starter and not getting procs, so use single target at 2). At 3 this is 720 (240/GCD, clearly better than single target, or even single target with ammunition). At 4 it's 960 (320/GCD), at 5 1200 (400/GCD)
If you use ammunition, the calculation is 315*X. So at 2, it's 630 (210/GCD, better than non-ammo single target, but still loses to ammo single target, so use that at 2.), at 3 it's 945 (315/GCD, WAY better than single target), at 4 it's 1260 (420/GCD), at 5 1575 (525/GCD).

So thus, 3 enemies is the point where you will be better served doing AoE (TP management not withstanding). (Bishop use is still definitely correct in any AoE situation, you're on the right track there.)

At 64, you're going to get a trait that increases your single target combo's power, with the following damage (assuming all hits proc):
190+230+270=690 (230/GCD), with ammo 215+255+295=765 (255/GCD), Which is still lower than what you get out of 3-target AoE of the same ammo status. So 3 enemies is still the point of "use Spread Shot".

[Mixing in Wildfire to all this is something I'll have to leave to someone who's better at math and machinist than I am, stuff gets confusing out there. But it would still seem like you should Spread Shot even in Wildfire if there are 4+ enemies, 3 is where I'm not as sure (and there may even be RNG involved which makes the difference). And if something in my math here is off, people should not hesitate to correct it.]


Now, as for the topic of people's behaviour, that has already been sufficiently covered by others here, especially HyoMin.
I'll still note, that it's good of you to be honest about not behaving well yourself. Honesty goes a long way.

[TaiyoShikasu]

Got Bardams Mettle in-progress as SMN with an AST, DRK and BLM. They were on the last boss but something like 38 minutes in-progress when I joined. I quickly found out why someone had quit and why they had spent 38 minutes without clearing.

First pull the AST pulls with their dot. BLM went down like a sack of bricks after he pulled off the healer. It was sloppy and wipe. Second pull, AST only casted one aspected helios and wipe. Third pull we made it to add phase and tank didn’t even try to pick it up. I kited it as best I could but I accidentally ran into the bosses divebomb - woops. Healer raised me before he took the add to the face, somehow it died and me and the tank were up. Swiftcast raise the healer, start summoning my egi when the second add spawns and insta gibs me, then the healer. Tank finally picked it up as we were all dead.

The only advice I could’ve given was to do the very basics of their jobs - pick up adds and heal more - things they shouldn’t even have to think about at level 65. Noped out of there and feel bad for whoever takes my place.

I'd have legit let the tank pet due the actual work after it became apparent the DRK was bad.

[DevonEllwood]

My friend signed both of us for the Great Goobbue Library because I wanted to use some of the white mage stuff I've gotten because leveling roulette keeps putting us in Stone Vigil. My friend is on paladin and we get a machinist and samurai for dps. Things are okay, everyone gets hit by demon wall 2.0's mechanics and I'm not caring. Then we both begin to notice the samurai not doing things. They would attack and stop and just stand there. We both stop after a pull and just stand there with them. "Oh", was all the samurai said. I then noticed they hadn't been rolling on stuff. My friend makes a joke about them having to restart netflix. They continue standing around and attacking randomly and the second boss they spent 90% standing there and the rest just running around. I'm not even sure they actually hit the boss. I stopped healing them but they managed to live through the boss. My friend tells me to have the vote kick ready for when the boss was dead. The samurai immediately opens the chest and proceeds to not roll on it.

The next pack of mobs gets the samurai killed and they stay on the ground. We both decided to just not go any further until the chest timer was up. The machinist goes ahead and pulls the next group of mobs and my friend picks them up just as someone knocks at my door. I throw some stuff on my friend, get the door, and explain what's going on to both door friend and tank friend. I decided I'd rather hang out with my friends than keep going with the samurai, so all three of us met up and got some Mexican food. The samurai said something about needing help because they were still dead before I left. I have no idea why people go into dungeons to not do anything, but it led up to a weird conclusion.

[Jonnykit]

snip

Had to cut the quote as it took up alot of character space. Thank you for taking your time to do this. While playing MCH I have come to see it like SMN. MCH to me shines at single target burst phases where SMN is AoE burst phases. Loved running SMN pre-stormblood by the way. Was my favorite Dungeon run dps job. But back to the reply. I go 121323 combo (3 ammo then quick reload after clean) with a total potency of 1300 without weaving in ogcd actions in roughly the same span of time. I still see it better to single target with bishop turret in 2-3 situations but totally agree that 4+ is a must for spread shot. Telling me to do it their way is just a selfish as me saying let me do it my way. I feel as long as I wasn't intentionally causing harm to the group, its fine. That was what this was ultimately about. My main pet peeve about all of this wasn't whether they were right or wrong about spread shot but waiting til the final boss to intentionally screw me over from the final boss/dungeon completion exp. I found that to be a violation of Vote Dismiss feature. They would have been in the right if they had done it right there after the first boss. I was guilty and punishment should have been immediate.

If anyone have read thru all that, please just stop it here. Don't waste your time over this, its not worth it. I want to move on now. Please and Thank You.

[TaiyoShikasu]

My friend signed both of us for the Great Goobbue Library because I wanted to use some of the white mage stuff I've gotten because leveling roulette keeps putting us in Stone Vigil. My friend is on paladin and we get a machinist and samurai for dps. Things are okay, everyone gets hit by demon wall 2.0's mechanics and I'm not caring. Then we both begin to notice the samurai not doing things. They would attack and stop and just stand there. We both stop after a pull and just stand there with them. "Oh", was all the samurai said. I then noticed they hadn't been rolling on stuff. My friend makes a joke about them having to restart netflix. They continue standing around and attacking randomly and the second boss they spent 90% standing there and the rest just running around. I'm not even sure they actually hit the boss. I stopped healing them but they managed to live through the boss. My friend tells me to have the vote kick ready for when the boss was dead. The samurai immediately opens the chest and proceeds to not roll on it.

The next pack of mobs gets the samurai killed and they stay on the ground. We both decided to just not go any further until the chest timer was up. The machinist goes ahead and pulls the next group of mobs and my friend picks them up just as someone knocks at my door. I throw some stuff on my friend, get the door, and explain what's going on to both door friend and tank friend. I decided I'd rather hang out with my friends than keep going with the samurai, so all three of us met up and got some Mexican food. The samurai said something about needing help because they were still dead before I left. I have no idea why people go into dungeons to not do anything, but it led up to a weird conclusion.

This could be summed up as "Ran something, SAM was bad," and that's probably sum up at least 1700 pages of this thread.

[sakkito]

@Jonnykit - that healer that has selfishly tried to get your performance optimal for the group,pulls and dungeon did react poor to your refusal to cooperate . But your reaction was to basically revert to throwing a tantrum and name calling. I don’t have children but even I know that if a child throws a tantrum you can’t let him off the hook as quickly as the calm one. On the serious note tho. Yes it was mean from the group to let you do the whole dunge sans final boss but you may actually threw a swear word at a healer like 5 times in a row. It kinda makes it fair even if I would not do the same thing for multiple reasons /shrug. From your reactions to people trying to help you there, I presume that by posting here you expected people to ignore your gameplay and attitude and cry ‘poor Jonnykit’. I feel bad it was not met so I will say this. I am sorry you had to go through that. Thank you for sharing. Sorry for the waste of a time in that place. I hope you will change your mind about AOE thing and using swear words in public space.

MY STORY TIME.
Did a Ala Mhigo dunge (I think it was that one) a few days ago on my smn. We had a bonus and healer said he has not been there in a while so any tips welcome. Tank doesn’t react so I type in that I will try. So I do take a min before each boss to type in what’s gonna happen. People generally follow well. Then after second boss eh, well tank pulls first pack and his health is really dropping. I look for the healer she is not in the room. I look in party chat see ‘toilet’ and ‘a min’ word and adjust. I use ‘Erase’ (I know... poor choice but in dunges situations like this show waaay too often)on tank and spam physick (750hp potency ;__ to keep him alive. But then I am ready to sit down and wait. Tank runs off. I type in ‘healer afk’ thinking dude didn’t notice. He says he has clemency and he doesn’t need a healer. It was semi joking. I see my co dps is waiting by me and visibly wanting to wait. So I say ‘sorry but I am going to wait for the healer as it is a polite thing to do’. And stay still. For like a min. Paladin dies because clemency is not enough. Healer comes back at the end of his life to apologise for her 2 y.o. Kid needing to go wc ASAP. I say it is okay. Tank turns into salt mine because dps didn’t follow him. I explain that she said she is gonna be gone 2 mins (and that is how long she has been gone) and that I always favour teamwork and ask him why he is so salty. He says he is in a hurry because work. I just answer that he should have warned us to start with then. We move on... he turns Zenos last min to cleave me so I get killed. I just wrote in chat apologising for my poor positioning (even tho it wasn’t but I didn’t want to start a fight). Got rezzed. We cleared.

But what is with this people in a hurry that do not even warn they want a speed run?

[Jonnykit]

@Sakkito Thank you for your input. When I made the initial post I only asked what people thought. I was looking for opinions on if I was the only person in the wrong there or both and was my reactions understandable and maybe offer opinions on how best to handle situations like this in the future but I failed to be specific on that.

Now to your story, I feel like some folks expect a quick run most of the time when they do dungeons more specifically higher level ones ( I believe this to be one of the causes of my previous situation as they expected me to be better than I was) so they don't tend to give warnings. His main mistake was that he entered this dungeon knowing he had to be at work soon when there is no guarantee you'll be able to clear it in a short window of time.

[sakkito]

I missed out on saying that- the dunge run was not any longer than necessary. It was regular 20-25 mins (don’t remember sorry) out of my life. Speed runs wise- I main a summoner. This was level 70 roulette for me. I love them but also if I enter roulette with randoms I am prepared to hit the timer if necessary (idk shit happens right?). And if I was about to be urgent I would pick trial roulette. If he expected a speed run he should que with friends or communicate clearly he has a time limit. But he didn’t, he wasn’t acting impatient up to that point. He even waited patiently for me to type in quick instructions. Two minutes were ‘wasted’ waiting for healer to come back. Two minutes would not be make it or break it for anyone. I have waited longer for people simply dcing in random roulettes tbh. If he communicated, I would have helped. But he didn’t. I am all for adjusting gameplay for team best interest but for that often we need actions paired with actual words.

@JonnyKit hm. Advice wise... sometimes some advice can be ‘unhelpful’ (once a friend told be not to die as an advice lol) but uh, since you don’t know second side nor the mood they were in (maybe they had a bad day too) best reaction is ‘I am sorry (you feel that way), I will try to improve. thank you’. In that way whatever you intend to do about it (and trying to do as adviced is best; as even if it is a bad idea; in the learning stage of things trying new things is good lol) it is clear you didn’t start the fight nor come from bad place. If she followed reacting badly... well. Don’t indulge no matter how shitty your day is. Be quiet. Just get shit done, finish the dunge move on. If you didn’t throw swear words nor verbally refused to cooperate the whole thing would look much better for your case and your grief to gms would make more sense. /shrug