as healer, how much tolerance you have for your party before you snap?

[Grimoire-M]

The only reason I get annoyed with Tanks who do that is SCH doesn't have an AoE stun like the other two healers to deal with this exact issue. If they had that you could get a bane off, followed by a later excog to get the second one, and not run dry on mana trying to keep them up with adlo/physick spam. It's compounded by the fact WAR's tank stance doesn't affect Lustrate or Excog in that specific example.

It's their one weakness. Crowd Control.

[NobleWinter]

Scholars do have crowd control. Its a just a lot more subtle and elegant than the simple stun the other healers get. Shadow flair has a slow effect which reduces incoming damage. Sacred Soil does the same thing and unlike Collective Unconscious we are still free to cast spells while it's active. Selene will also silence certain AoEs occasionally on her own when left on sic which is actually pretty worry free in over geared dungeons. Scholar is a beautiful mix of skills and auto abilities that keep it from falling short in every situation.

[MoroMurasaki]

Scholars do have crowd control. Its a just a lot more subtle and elegant than the simple stun the other healers get. Shadow flair has a slow effect which reduces incoming damage. Sacred Soil does the same thing and unlike Collective Unconscious we are still free to cast spells while it's active. Selene will also silence certain AoEs occasionally on her own when left on sic which is actually pretty worry free in over geared dungeons. Scholar is a beautiful mix of skills and auto abilities that keep it from falling short in every situation.

To be fair none of those things hold a candle to Holy's stunlock. Even AST's stun isn't really comperable. I wouldn't say SCH is really the outlier as having less tools for a large dungeon pack and more WHM is just far better than either other healer. WHM gets to put out as much dps as an actual dps assuming basic tank competence and likely more when buffs like PoM and Thin Air are up. SCH would have a much harder time doing the same in a dungeon.

[Estelle9lives]

To be fair none of those things hold a candle to Holy's stunlock. Even AST's stun isn't really comperable. I wouldn't say SCH is really the outlier as having less tools for a large dungeon pack and more WHM is just far better than either other healer. WHM gets to put out as much dps as an actual dps assuming basic tank competence and likely more when buffs like PoM and Thin Air are up. SCH would have a much harder time doing the same in a dungeon.

Actually, a full kit SCH is nearly as efficient as a WHM in putting out AOE DPS. You have a myriad tools to deal with incoming damage - Permanent, automatic regen in the fairy, Rouse, Whispering Dawn, Excog, Lustrate, Fey Union, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant for magic enemies... You can even Sacred Soil if you need, assuming the tank won't move too much for extra 10% mitigation. They can also put a shield up before pulls, and the bulk of their kit isn't GCD tied - no need to refresh Regens like WHM.

Holy is strong, but it has a longer-than-average cast time (nullified by PoM, which has a large cooldown), huge MP cost (nullified by Thin Air) and damage dropoff on big packs. Miasma II on the other hand is instant-cast (which lets you weave ED's easily inbetween for extra 150 potency), has no dropoff, costs less MP and puts a dot that ticks for 25 potency on every enemy.

I'd say WHM is better at AOE burst considering they have all their CDs ready, but SCH does more consistent AOE damage overall.

[vVAstrAVv]

Asts dont use cu for the stun its for the buff extend. If they use it for stun thats... pretty desperate

And as someone who was like this till maybe 2 months ago if sch seems to underperform for you youre neglecting eos skills or emergency tactics
Also schs aoe damage is pretty good with all their dots maintained
Its not holy spam sure
But nothing is
Schs dps comes more from them getting to dps while eos heals. And even when they need to heal they have frequent access to strong as heck instant heals. But between rouse and wd the need to heal in mobs is noooot much compared to whm who will likely use their instants during the holy spree and then only have regen and cures. As in not damage

[Grimoire-M]

I use CO for the stun on trash mob pulls. The buff extension is something I try for, but sometimes it's just not worth it to set up CU if the tank's just gonna drop before I can get in position. Sure I'll ED him and swift/Bene II but in all likelihood that stun time will be spent getting CU and Diurnal Benefic up knowing I won't get another shot to.

As for SCH, the slow on Shadowflare is negligible if there are enough mobs hitting the tank. It's 5% damage reduction, making it worse than Sacred Soil. Rouse and Fey Union are good, but it depends on the tank whether they'll be good enough or if Physick/Adlo spam will be necessary. Typically the situations where I have to spam a lot of lustrates are undergeared unaware tanks pulling 3+ packs of mobs like madmen that got ahead of me (I stop for chests in search of desynth drops, which can cause delays). Their damage is absolutely fine once it gets rolling, but they require setup to do it unlike the other healers, who don't have the luxury of the fairy.

I kinda miss the days where Bio/Miasma had slowing effects on them. Stronger than what we have.

[MoroMurasaki]

Actually, a full kit SCH is nearly as efficient as a WHM in putting out AOE DPS. You have a myriad tools to deal with incoming damage - Permanent, automatic regen in the fairy, Rouse, Whispering Dawn, Excog, Lustrate, Fey Union, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant for magic enemies... You can even Sacred Soil if you need, assuming the tank won't move too much for extra 10% mitigation. They can also put a shield up before pulls, and the bulk of their kit isn't GCD tied - no need to refresh Regens like WHM.

Holy is strong, but it has a longer-than-average cast time (nullified by PoM, which has a large cooldown), huge MP cost (nullified by Thin Air) and damage dropoff on big packs. Miasma II on the other hand is instant-cast (which lets you weave ED's easily inbetween for extra 150 potency), has no dropoff, costs less MP and puts a dot that ticks for 25 potency on every enemy.

I'd say WHM is better at AOE burst considering they have all their CDs ready, but SCH does more consistent AOE damage overall.

The problem is you don't need most of those tools to deal with incoming damage unless you have a literal paper tank. SCH is over-prepared defensively but it's all overkill, kind of like a WHM's HPS potential outside of Godka and Ultimate.

Holy's dropoff will only bring it down to 100 potency which is where Miasma II starts. Bane was nerfed into the ground. Maybe a SCH could have an advantage if you had dps who were just auto attacking or something but in the real world before I have to touch a heal beyond my initial Regen and DB most of the pack is dead.

While a SCH is wasting MP refreshing a DoT WHM is doing more damage with Holy, can have Aero III ticking on everything in one cast (and no fall off) and has Assize up regularly enough that it's used almost every pull. Tetra is a solid backup and then Bene is a great plan C. Sometimes you have the boon of PoM and Thin Air (or even Lucid) but they aren't necessary.

SCH was a monster back in HW for dungeoning... before they nerfed Bane into the ground. And the fairy's embrace, she heals less than a chocobo now. I mained it back then and loved it.

It literally has nothing to answer the stunlock though, I'm sorry.

[Awful]

For me lately the annoyance has been Pld tanks spamming Clemency when Excog is up and I even tell em you have Excog you're in 0 danger and they don't use Total Eclipse or any kind of Holy Spirit/Req in a fight either it's just Halone and Goring Blade back and forth I never understood these tanks.

I haven't snapped but it's just annoying I've gotten to the point where I just let them heal while I spam Miasma II for hours and don't even heal them.

[RuleofThree]

In really old content/they have high enough gear to face tank the AoE's, I couldn't give a shit if they move. Like for example, Keeper of the Lake does like...any boss in there, save for the constant damage of the flames on the second boss, does like...1,000-2,000 hp to a level 70 tank, a bit more to a dps. If they want to be lazy and face tank it to stay in laziness/dps stance/whatever, Don't care...the damage is negligible to care. We are all falling asleep anyway.

If it's serious content, where damage matters, and I am certain they are doing it on purpose, then it depends on the situation.

1) If it's a dps face tanking pointless damage to them in order to get out 'mad deeps yo', I throw a regen on them, and play roulette. If that keeps them alive, they got lucky, if not, they die, and I respond with 'and what have we learned from this?'

2) If it's a tank face tanking pointless damage, it's a bit harder. I first give them benefit of the doubt and assume they forgot to pop a cooldown for the tank buster, or are generally new to the dungeon...so I tell them after the fight. If they do it again next boss, I let them all die, and respond with 'and what have we learned from all this?'

9 times out of ten, it gets me kicked, but I'd like to think this is enough to make them realize that taking unnecessary damage is bad.

[GrumbleBeard]

I had my worst run as a healer today actually.
I went to the burn as a whm with my friend tanking as a pld. We got two dps, a romantic couple of redmages with the same last name and matching glamour. The dungeon went slow in general, but despite both of them being hit by many dodgeable aoes, there wasn't anything too terrible...
..Until the last boss. Both of them could not dodge the ice aoe attack and were constantly getting frozen, we failed the dragon head dps check which was a first for me, both were hit multiple times by the foggy line aoe.

Up until this point, every run I've had has lasted until right after he does the first ice dive thing. He lands, get's lb'ed and dies shortly after.
Today I saw three sets of dives and dragonhead dps checks. It was certainly a nightmare.