Level Syncing isn't the best solution

[silverlunarfox]

I think some people need refresher courses on the basics under 50.... even if they are 70....

Even so, I don't think we need to keep level 70 spells under 50. What about those that arent 70 yet? If youre bothered by not being able to use 70 spells...run 70 dungeons. problem solved.

I quite like losing spells/abilities personally. brings you back down to the basics which is never a bad thing.

[PyurBlue]

What about those that arent 70 yet?

Allowing the use of all your skills benefits them as well. With the proposed change, when they level up and unlock a new skill they'll be able to practice it regardless of where the roulette places them instead of forgetting about it and potentially skipping important knowledge about how their class works.

If youre bothered by not being able to use 70 spells...run 70 dungeons. problem solved.

The problem is that there are various reasons to run level synced content, but level sync is boring. The existence of level 70 dungeons is irrelevant.

I quite like losing spells/abilities personally. brings you back down to the basics which is never a bad thing.

Then we can make it optional like I proposed so that those who prefer the current system can still choose to sync. There isn't any real benefit to syncing and with the proper balancing of skills, having the full level 70 skill list won't make leveled players overpowered.

[Freyt]

We learn well from doing and from making mistakes.

I can tell you that in the current patch, I negate the majority of mistakes that people make on my own even without all of my abilities.

People might not learn the first time around, but they'll enjoy it enough to do it the second time around or maybe even a third or fourth, and they'll learn then. And then maybe we won't need such brain dead easy content in the form of any dungeon or alliance raid just to tide over players that otherwise won't play because they don't enjoy failing.

The best you can do to improve the skill level of the general player is to make failing enjoyable, and winning even more enjoyable than that.

[SendohJin]

Then we can make it optional like I proposed so that those who prefer the current system can still choose to sync.

Unsync is already optional. you're asking to swap what the default is with what's optional, i don't see any overwhelming reason why.

There isn't any real benefit to syncing and with the proper balancing of skills, having the full level 70 skill list won't make leveled players overpowered.

i haven't been convinced of this "proper balancing of skills"

a SCH with Adlo and Excogitation is overpowered compared to a low level healer without them. how do you balance the shield? how do you balance Excogitation? does it shield for 1 HP and explode for 1 HP restored? why would anyone use anything balanced like that? how do you balance 3 aetherflow charges against a lower level SCH with just 1?

a WHM that can regen and apply Medica II is overpowered compared to a healer that can't. how do you balance the regen ticks? how do you balance instant cast Assize or Divine Benison?

[Deceptus]

What about those that arent 70 yet? If youre bothered by not being able to use 70 spells...run 70 dungeons. problem solved.
.

Do you want 2 hour dungeon queues? Because that's how you get 2 hour dungeon queues.

a SCH with Adlo and Excogitation is overpowered compared to a low level healer without them. how do you balance the shield? how do you balance Excogitation? does it shield for 1 HP and explode for 1 HP restored? why would anyone use anything balanced like that? how do you balance 3 aetherflow charges against a lower level SCH with just 1?

You balance them the same way you balance all synced content. With stat caps (mainly weapon damage)

[HyoMinPark]

Allowing the use of all your skills benefits them as well. With the proposed change, when they level up and unlock a new skill they'll be able to practice it regardless of where the roulette places them instead of forgetting about it and potentially skipping important knowledge about how their class works.

But they can already do this—when they unlock a new skill, they can queue into something at level and practice using it. This is the case for any level: 15, 30, 45, 50, 60, or 70. There are dungeons every 3 levels in ARR, and every 2 in HW/SB. They have options outside of Leveling Roulette, which is meant to be run once a day—if you need more levels/experience, you queue in for something at level.

The problem is that there are various reasons to run level synced content, but level sync is boring. The existence of level 70 dungeons is irrelevant.

Level sync and level 70 dungeons would be less boring if they would stop nerfing them every time a new expansion comes out. Things die so quickly in ARR and HW dungeons now because they were nerfed—ARR when HW was released, and HW when SB was released.

Then we can make it optional like I proposed so that those who prefer the current system can still choose to sync. There isn't any real benefit to syncing and with the proper balancing of skills, having the full level 70 skill list won't make leveled players overpowered.

Except they would have to basically completely redo how they do level syncing—as it stands currently, a level 70 DPS synced to level 15 for Sastasha is extremely overpowered; more so than an at-level player is in there thanks to the nerfs to mobs’/bosses’ HP. The time and resources spent on that could be spent elsewhere for something else: as I said in my last post, making a not-a-dumpster-fire Relic in 5.0 is one example; another would be to finally fix PvP.

This isn’t a necessary change.

[Delmontyb]

I spend a lot of my time level synced in this game while doing various quests and roulettes. It feels like I scratched and clawed my way to level 70 only to be level 50 again.

I think there can be another solution- like simply lowering the output of our spells to be on par with what we're doing. I have a level 70 rotation and I should be able to use and practice my level 70 rotation. Even if it doesn't do all the damage that it does at level 70, I should still be able to use it when doing lower level content.

I know... people are going to rebel and claim that this cannot be done.

This is not a new concept- There are other MMOs who have pulled this off. It's not impossible. It can be done. This company has the money to pull this off. It's a multi-billion dollar company. People should be rewarded for making maximum level- not have it taken away from them- also, the more practice I get at my max level rotation, the better I'll be at it.

From the idea to help us continue to practice our rotation and to also be more valuable in older content yes, please. Hopefully, they can find a balance that doesn't punish those at level content in "synced" content.

[PyurBlue]

Unsync is already optional. you're asking to swap what the default is with what's optional, i don't see any overwhelming reason why.

Unsync is completely different though. That leaves you with level 70 stats, trivializing pretty much everything under level 50 and negating the need for a party.

What is being asked for is a more enjoyable way to participate in synced content where your abilities are balanced in order to provide some form of challenge.

i haven't been convinced of this "proper balancing of skills"


a SCH with Adlo and Excogitation is overpowered compared to a low level healer without them. how do you balance the shield? how do you balance Excogitation? does it shield for 1 HP and explode for 1 HP restored? why would anyone use anything balanced like that? how do you balance 3 aetherflow charges against a lower level SCH with just 1?

The simplest way to approach balancing is probably targeting a given amount of DPS/HPS. Say a level 15 does 100 HPS averaged over a few minutes while a level 70 can achieve 2000 HPS over that same time. To balance the healing between them, you would want to lower potencies so that the level 70 is also healing around 100 HPS. Maybe a little less because having more skills, especially OGCD, will allow for more burst.

Adlo specifically isn't a huge problem. While the healing is split between HP recovery and shielding, it still works effectively the same as Cure/Physic when the tank is taking heavy damage. You just have to wait to reapply it so that you're not overwriting shields and thus wasting MP. You could argue that shields might be overpowered (but they're potency based and so can be tweaked) in very low level content, but all healing is. SCH doesn't even need Physic in some cases because Embrace is so strong.

Having a higher Aetherflow cap isn't much of an issue either if its related actions are weaker. If Energy drain restores less MP per use, you need to burn more AF to get the same MP restoration. You also have stronger heals that AF allows you to use, but they just get made weaker like everything else. Is there even any content where you can have only 1 AF stack and a cohealer?

a WHM that can regen and apply Medica II is overpowered compared to a healer that can't. how do you balance the regen ticks? how do you balance instant cast Assize or Divine Benison?

Total HPS as before. Regen + Medica II can be lowered to range anywhere from 0 HPS to their level 70 amounts. Rebalanced Assize won't be healing for thousands in a level 15 dungeon with adjusted potency. Benison is target HP based so it might not even need to be adjusted, but it's an effective HPS gain, so maybe lower the shielding to 5%?

Potency rebalancing isn't something that devs will finish in an afternoon, and I hope I'm not coming across as thinking it is . This suggestion might be the kind of change that comes with a new expansion, but I think it's worth the effort.

But they can already do this—when they unlock a new skill, they can queue into something at level and practice using it. This is the case for any level: 15, 30, 45, 50, 60, or 70. There are dungeons every 3 levels in ARR, and every 2 in HW/SB. They have options outside of Leveling Roulette, which is meant to be run once a day—if you need more levels/experience, you queue in for something at level.

There is the case of over leveling the story, especially with the Road to 60 bonus. Or players leveling an alt class just running roulettes for the bonuses and then switching classes to do something else like raiding.

Level sync and level 70 dungeons would be less boring if they would stop nerfing them every time a new expansion comes out. Things die so quickly in ARR and HW dungeons now because they were nerfed—ARR when HW was released, and HW when SB was released.

This is still a separate issue from class playability at low levels though. You could make low level dungeons harder, but I don't think I'll ever be distracted enough to forget that I don't have Total Eclipse on PLD below level~45, or Gravity on AST below 52.

Except they would have to basically completely redo how they do level syncing—as it stands currently, a level 70 DPS synced to level 15 for Sastasha is extremely overpowered; more so than an at-level player is in there thanks to the nerfs to mobs’/bosses’ HP. The time and resources spent on that could be spent elsewhere for something else: as I said in my last post, making a not-a-dumpster-fire Relic in 5.0 is one example; another would be to finally fix PvP.

This isn’t a necessary change.

You're not wrong, but the value of the change is subjective. Players that want the change will continue to ask for it. If the suggestion isn't popular enough then Square won't allocate any resources for it.

[HyoMinPark]

There is the case of over leveling the story, especially with the Road to 60 bonus. Or players leveling an alt class just running roulettes for the bonuses and then switching classes to do something else like raiding.

A player overlevels the story only on their first job that they take through it, and that’s due to the developers buffing the experience from the MSQ and from the dungeons that they participate in below the current expansion—plus 2.x and 3.x give EXP now. It’s even worse if you do Leveling Roulette consistently and all the sidequests (my alt reached level 60 on her BRD before she even finished 2.x). However, for people that level other jobs, they don’t have the MSQ/story to over-level—my original point with them having options in the form of dungeons catered to their leveling bracket still stands.

It may take less time now, what with the experience buffs and things like FC buffs, Road to 60, the Brand New Ring, the Ala Mhigan Earrings, and the Friendship Circlet, but the options are still there. That hasn’t changed; all that’s changed is “Well, now I only need to run Cutter’s Cry 5 times to reach level 41 for Stone Vigil as opposed to 8”, to give an example.

This is still a separate issue from class playability at low levels though. You could make low level dungeons harder, but I don't think I'll ever be distracted enough to forget that I don't have Total Eclipse on PLD below level~45, or Gravity on AST below 52.

It’s not so much about making them harder, but making them not fall over; stop nerfing them. When I first started back at the tail end of 3.0/start of 3.1, people still did the bubble mechanic in Sastasha for the final boss. Now? You burn him. He dies before the adds even have a chance to spawn.

Some jobs it does suck to not have AOEs at a lower level—some of these could be rectified by either implanting the skills at a lower level (like what they did with Total Eclipse—that’s new to SB), or lowering the level in which you acquire them (AST should get Gravity at level 45 at the earliest because that’s when WHM gets Holy; SCH learns Miasma II at level 40~45 - somewhere around there; I know before it was level 42, but I think they changed it with SB and it’s a job reward now(?) - so it would be in line with them as well).

For PLDs, they could even give them Total Eclipse at level 15 to balance out with WAR and DRK, both of whom have AOE abilities at that level (Overpower and Unleash).

However, if they were to implement that change now, there would still probably be balance issues with the baby dungeons due to a combination of nerfs and the fact that the dungeons were not designed initially with these types of abilities in mind. SE has said in the past that they don’t like going back and fixing “old content” (see: Main Scenario and their lazy “fix” with it, or scaling ARR/HW Hunts ot level 70 so they aren’t just zerged down), so it’s doubtful that they would fix it in the first place.

Which brings me back to the first point I ever made in this thread: it would be a balance nightmare to give level 70 players their full level 70 rotation. Again, consider a level 70 BRD or DRG or SAM against a level 15 GLA or MRD.

You're not wrong, but the value of the change is subjective. Players that want the change will continue to ask for it. If the suggestion isn't popular enough then Square won't allocate any resources for it.

Based from complaints I’ve seen, the two examples I suggested would be addressed before something like this. If we want to go by “popularity”. This is not something I’ve ever seen a lot of people ask for—compared to the mess Eureka and PvP are.

[NanaWiloh]

Adding high level abilities wont make low level dungeons more challenging or interesting. Sat for example: mobs are not scaled to hit tanks like they have grit up, their Hp levels are not scaled around the idea the BLM's have fire III. Nerfing high level ablities so players can use them at low levels wont change anything. Places like Sat have been desgined around the idea that your class has said skills and stat range going in. But I guess people wont realize they will still be bored in low level dungeons even with High level ablilities until they experience it. I am honestly just as bored running void ark as I am running Sat or tam more abilites does not end my boredom the dungeon demanding I pay attention does.