An Angry Letter About Eureka Pagos

[Kurando]

snip .

I agree with this. Honestly I don't feel like my accomplishment is that great every time I've obtained a Eureka weapon, like I did half a job you know. Despite some of the tedious stages I found the ARR and HW relics more rewarding, and at least I needed to work towards then much more rather than spend half my time afk or doing minimum contribution. Well that's just me anyway, kinda worrying that the final stage of Eureka could be yet another chain or train scenario.

[DarienChiba]

This is relic, and not casual content.

This is incorrect. The relic has always been for the casual playerbase. Many many many players had relics in 3.0 so I am not sure why you are saying this. 2.0 was still pretty new so it took a long time for new players, and since PS4 came later, to get up to relic grinding.

And yes, I have the Elemental Lance so don't ask if I have it yet lol

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I liked Pagos. It's meant to be difficult and time consuming to get a relic, and not to be just focused on fun. It's fun for me, while not being the most fun content and keeping it's difficulty to manage strategy for time cost/efficient to level fast and get the relic fast.

I'm loving to watch all the whine with my new relic right my side, tho. Kisses and Hugs! I hope SE don't nerf it again, so that whoever put effort into this relic does not feel bad. Savage was not nerfed within 2 weeks.

I don't mind if it's time consuming. Just make it engaging. Trying to get a Relic Weapon from Eureka is like trying to level from 1 to 50 just fighting mobs without also doing FATEs, dungeons, or roulettes.

[Hyperia]

I agree with this. Honestly I don't feel like my accomplishment is that great every time I've obtained a Eureka weapon, like I did half a job you know. Despite some of the tedious stages I found the ARR and HW relics more rewarding, and at least I needed to work towards then much more rather than spend half my time afk or doing minimum contribution. Well that's just me anyway, kinda worrying that the final stage of Eureka could be yet another chain or train scenario.

Exactly! I felt like I earned my ARR and HW relics, every step in their progression felt tangible and for the most part, enjoyable. Besides the infamous Atama step, RNG really wasn't a factor. You worked hard and you got your weapon, something to really feel proud about. I don't really feel proud about my Eureka weapon and I stopped on the Pagos step. If I persisted, my hard work in Pagos would net me not a relic but Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.

At this point, if they really want to recover the debacle that is Pagos, they need to massively boost the lights on NMs, make the NMs easy to spawn and move all the sleeping dragons into a farmable area for people who want to grind them. No more sleeping dragon "landmines" please, we already have a UN convention against such weapons of indiscriminate killing.

[CrystalRainbow]

The 1st Eureka got brought the community together. Pagos ripping them apart.
Weather it's can't process with friends because your different levels.
Or you can't comment 3 hours of non stop playing.

I would love to see the number of achivments for people with finaly Stage eureka vs Final Stage Pagos achivements.
I think the number has dropped of greatly.

I've sure someone could data mine lodestone for this info but it's beyond me.

[Reynhart]

The moment I went in there and found out that I'm basically the same as a level 1 character in Anemos is extremely frustrating. Mounts are again disabled and gated by levels.

What did you expect ? It's the same every time you have a new "level cap". It's like being a weak level 60 and not being able to fly when you start Stormblood. Mounts are the main reason why the overworld doesn't feel dangerous at all, so allowing them right away in Pagos would have killed any tension.

[Neophyte]

I really wonder about the 'casual' definition...

For example:
Someone playing a match triple triad now and then just for fun is a prime example for casuals.
But grinding and winning all cards is not casual at all.

"Huge amount of time needed to do the same content over and over and over and over and over again for some little gain (or none at all, Atmas, TT cards *cough*) or digital achievment" is not casual.

Relic was also always about dedication. And dedication doesn't fit well with casual gameplay either.

I mean, usually in casual games they hand out "Feeling of success" and "sense of achievment" for little effort, e.g. running 5 dungeons a week and getting a gear upgrade for that.
But a 40+ h grind is almost never casual.

[Xau]

snip

dedication is not exclusive, dedication ca go hand to hand whit casual. on the relic grind what makes it casual is the fact what you can do it litle by litle, pagos allows that? nope, you need to stay there for multiple hours to get some kind of pogress, and on top of this, when pagos wasn't nerfed, if you joined late you had a harder time to level up because less people of your level, hell, is somewhat true yet that,on past relics you could do each step at any time because there was people doing said dungeons(because roulette) so no matter how late you joined, you could still pogress at your own pace, so if they keep pagos as how it is currently, i doubt anyone will be able to do a relic on the next expanson(because lack of people to run it)

also, past relics didnt required you to make a group of people to do one exclusive piece of content(whit the exception of chimera and hydra until they added df to them later on), there is also the fact what the past relic steps what had required you to do dungeons didn't feel at all mindless, unlike pagos or anemos because there was more than hit this mob what does to odd aoe attack, or the fact what you are 1 of a huge mob of players, making it feel what your contribution isnt as relevant to the pogresion of you or others

[PerrinTaveren]

I don't hate Eureka, but also i don't "love" it either. I am kinda "meh" in this topic.

First of all "casuality" is a personal thing. A person who cleared Ultimate fights or savage will probably find extreme primals casual. But extreme primals aren't casual for majority of the playerbase. Eureka has a few elements that isn't casual friendly. First is deleveling by dying and dying is extremely easy if someone doesn't know what to do because of dangerous mobs, and secondly it is a time sink. I did pagos almost non-stop for 3 weeks to get all rewards + 2 relics. For a person who works daily and have irl responsbilities, pagos can be extremely long to grind. I was on holidays and put like 6-7 hours a day probably, imagine a person has only 1-2 hours of gameplay a day. You need to get into a group by either pf or shouting, which takes like 10 to 30 min at least, and soloing will extremely be long so joining a group is almost a must. And also, you have to get the relic weapons within a restricted zone. It is not like "do a daily this or that". You HAVE TO do eureka. Which is fine by me but for a person who has limited time, again, it is a HUGE time sink.

For me, yes, eureka is a casual thing. But for the reasons above, it might not be causal for all people. We have people who works hard, who have a family, who has various diseases etc. Eureka forces you to stay in a group for 1-2 hours if you don't wanna pf all over again and lose like 20-30 min waiting for people to join again. Let's imagine pressing buttons for 2 hours non-stop. Content-wise it doesn't require a mastery or any hardship like killing godkefka whatever, but it is not casual by its time sink. It probably takes longer and harder to get a relic weapon than clearing god kefka or gettin tomestone 370 weapon right now. (not talking about when 08s first released but as of now).

You can watch netflix or youtube or whatever kink you are into while doing eureka, i agree. It doesn't require any effort that you need to pay attention or know your job perfectly, know your openers etc. But you need to do 30 chains within a limited time, you need to be careful about what and how many mobs you pull and you need to play inside eureka for SEVERAL hours. So yes, it might be casual in execution but it is not casual if you think how much time you put to get the weapon.

I still prefer eureka over hw & arr relics, because at least i don't have to do light farms in a1s or pvp, or run several dungeons or trials, or do weekly stuff JUST for a relic. At least now i can keep my red scrips etc.

Anyway, everyone has their unique opinions. We should all respect it. But don't sound like eureka is the most hardcore content in the game. It is the same as saying "sastasha isn't casual for me, it is hard". Opinions can be reliable to a point. If you think sastasha isn't casual, that means there must be something wrong with how you play the game and i would recommend you to improve yourself. It is the same about eureka, it might have non-casual aspects but in the end, it is not hardcore either. Getting a relic is an accomplishment and i always respect that, but let's not fool ourselves that you are doing such a hardcore content that you need to be praised.

Also i will mention, i don't do any savage / ultimate fights and i have 2 relics in pagos like i said before someone rages over me. Thanks :3

[Hamada]

SOURCE: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_soken_at/

I don't think they care :/

I like to point out something just after that:

But for the weapon upgrades, your predecessors spent a lot of time and effort farming mobs to grow stronger, so we won't ease up on that. Please learn how to do that. It kind of feels like even though people ask for change, they're upset when there is change.

No Yoshida, you are very out of touch here. People are not upset for getting change. People are upset for FFXIV repeadly doing the same thing over and over again. People are upset because NOTHING CHANGES! same 450 tomestones of boring, people are upset over eurkia as a whole because putting ideas from older games, FFXI exp grinds in FFXIV does not work!! PEOPLE ARE UPSET OVER you trying to force ideas that DOES NOT WORK!

You cant expect people to be mashing savage level up time for hours on end. You can't expect people doing that for gear that does not last over 4 months. People are upset over the receptive tredmill, why do you NOT understand this Yoshida??????????? Have you forgot what it was like to play FFXI? you where not mashing buttons every 1-2 seconds, you where able to talk as you build tp, so on. You where able to talk strategy during combat because the pace was slower. FFXIV's combat is not a fitting game for FFXI's style exp grinds.

" Please learn how to do that."
Sorry no, this is not Yoshida-FFXIV, remember who is paying who. Please learn your userbase, this really shows how out of touch you are.

dedication is not exclusive, dedication ca go hand to hand whit casual. on the relic grind what makes it casual is the fact what you can do it litle by litle, pagos allows that? nope, you need to stay there for multiple hours to get some kind of pogress, and on top of this, when pagos wasn't nerfed, if you joined late you had a harder time to level up because less people of your level, hell, is somewhat true yet that,on past relics you could do each step at any time because there was people doing said dungeons(because roulette) so no matter how late you joined, you could still pogress at your own pace, so if they keep pagos as how it is currently, i doubt anyone will be able to do a relic on the next expanson(because lack of people to run it)

also, past relics didnt required you to make a group of people to do one exclusive piece of content(whit the exception of chimera and hydra until they added df to them later on), there is also the fact what the past relic steps what had required you to do dungeons didn't feel at all mindless, unlike pagos or anemos because there was more than hit this mob what does to odd aoe attack, or the fact what you are 1 of a huge mob of players, making it feel what your contribution isnt as relevant to the pogresion of you or others

Yup, fully agree. The past relics were much better concepts.